General Wildfire Discussion
-
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2021 1:25 pm
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion
I knew you would chime in Chris. In yesteday's briefing they mentioned that they might do a back burn in the evening. I have seen a video of it from the Okanogan Highlands Fire Watch page on the evil FB.
But with a Red Flag warning, don't know if it was wise. Wind up there is out of the NW now, headed right towards Newby Cr. Granted it has to cross Twisp River Rd., so it would take a bit to get over there. Now to be fair, the video showed it crawling along the ground and not in the trees. But they kept warning about the high grasses in the old burn scar, that could take off quickly. If there are crown fires in there and a wind coming...
Well, think about it, should they be doing a controlled burn in these conditions? I don't know or necessarily think it is a backdoor deal. They are taking advantage of a situation and if they can beat this wind, then they will have accomplished much. This is a gamble. And yes, it will burn at some point even more.
I will say and I will be dragged through the mud for this, but after the rains, they could have snuffed this. The air was clear at some times. I have seen how they aggressively fought the 2014 Little Bridge Cr. fire, which is where the fire is going now, and they were able to stop it. Again, short of resources, I get that.
Have I called anyone for clarity? What kind of answer would I get? I doubt if I can call anyone that would give me a clear answer. They are all too busy.
This is all my opinion. I have a high opinion of Frankie and the incredible support people and the people on the ground. Not so much the plotters and decision makers.
I have no expertise in fighting fires, but I am observing from the past and what I hear, that it is so ding dang dry, but they continue to do this semi controlled burn.
That's enough. I am saying what other people won't say.
But with a Red Flag warning, don't know if it was wise. Wind up there is out of the NW now, headed right towards Newby Cr. Granted it has to cross Twisp River Rd., so it would take a bit to get over there. Now to be fair, the video showed it crawling along the ground and not in the trees. But they kept warning about the high grasses in the old burn scar, that could take off quickly. If there are crown fires in there and a wind coming...
Well, think about it, should they be doing a controlled burn in these conditions? I don't know or necessarily think it is a backdoor deal. They are taking advantage of a situation and if they can beat this wind, then they will have accomplished much. This is a gamble. And yes, it will burn at some point even more.
I will say and I will be dragged through the mud for this, but after the rains, they could have snuffed this. The air was clear at some times. I have seen how they aggressively fought the 2014 Little Bridge Cr. fire, which is where the fire is going now, and they were able to stop it. Again, short of resources, I get that.
Have I called anyone for clarity? What kind of answer would I get? I doubt if I can call anyone that would give me a clear answer. They are all too busy.
This is all my opinion. I have a high opinion of Frankie and the incredible support people and the people on the ground. Not so much the plotters and decision makers.
I have no expertise in fighting fires, but I am observing from the past and what I hear, that it is so ding dang dry, but they continue to do this semi controlled burn.
That's enough. I am saying what other people won't say.
Pearl Cherrington
-
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:22 pm
- Contact:
Re: Cedar Creek/Delancy/Cub Creek Fires
are you saying that you're not happy with the controlled burn in your area (because red flag warning)and not happy trees that have the potential to burn are being logged in kind of a FS back door deal that bypasses normal procedures for such activity?PAL wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:49 am If anyone is looking at CALtopo, you will notice all the hotspots down at the Little Bridge Cr. road. The fire did not just jump down there. They are firing it off. There is absolutely no wind here, none, nada. This is a red flag day, hello. This is a semi controlled burn experiment. There have been many many logging trucks going down all week long plus. This is a good thing, with thinning going on too. But the FS got what they wanted. The Twisp Restoration Project on steroids. With the bulldozing of ridgetops, logging and thinning. I do not begrudge the firefighters on the ground, working their asses off and yes, they will and have protected properties. No, it's the powers that be. They've done an excellant job at Gobbler's Knob.
And it's great, maybe the grasses are getting burned off today, that they have been concerned about, but again a RED FLAG day. And ok, maybe they are trying to beat the wind. But no air support can come in here now at all.
Ok, I've vented, said some things maybe I shouldn't have. But people have to know that this fire did not just jump down there. I live 3 miles away. I know.
Pearl
Have you called anyone to seek clairity?
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding--Nick Lowe
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
-
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2021 1:25 pm
- Contact:
Re: Cedar Creek/Delancy/Cub Creek Fires
If anyone is looking at CALtopo, you will notice all the hotspots down at the Little Bridge Cr. road. The fire did not just jump down there. They are firing it off. There is absolutely no wind here, none, nada. This is a red flag day, hello. This is a semi controlled burn experiment. There have been many many logging trucks going down all week long plus. This is a good thing, with thinning going on too. But the FS got what they wanted. The Twisp Restoration Project on steroids. With the bulldozing of ridgetops, logging and thinning. I do not begrudge the firefighters on the ground, working their asses off and yes, they will and have protected properties. No, it's the powers that be. They've done an excellant job at Gobbler's Knob.
And it's great, maybe the grasses are getting burned off today, that they have been concerned about, but again a RED FLAG day. And ok, maybe they are trying to beat the wind. But no air support can come in here now at all.
Ok, I've vented, said some things maybe I shouldn't have. But people have to know that this fire did not just jump down there. I live 3 miles away. I know.
Pearl
And it's great, maybe the grasses are getting burned off today, that they have been concerned about, but again a RED FLAG day. And ok, maybe they are trying to beat the wind. But no air support can come in here now at all.
Ok, I've vented, said some things maybe I shouldn't have. But people have to know that this fire did not just jump down there. I live 3 miles away. I know.
Pearl
Pearl Cherrington
-
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:22 pm
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion
yea, I didn't think you were panicked because you had a skillet to wash before you were evacuated.PAL wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:43 am Thanks Chris. I love this kind of article. I wanted to major in psychology so I am very interested in this. Plus, for myself, I need to look at my behavior and practice awareness. And remain calm and not in denial. In the heat of the moment not always easy. I must say, when we evacuated I did not go into a panic, which is growth for me. I just knew we had to get out of here and fairly quickly. That sound, the sound of the wind and fire. Haunting. I'm sure you may know it too. Chills.
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
I posted that because you stated that you were "uneasy" about the tall grass in the old burn areas.
Translate that feeling into action. Is there anything else you can do to prepare?
I have concerns about where the Cub Creek fire is headed. Because of the recent rain, I was able to recut a fire break around my home down to dirt even though the fire is many miles away.
Quote: "Plus, for myself, I need to look at my behavior and practice awareness". End quote
We all do. Its why even First Responders practice emergency situations.
I find that how I react to an emergency depends on how immediate the perceived threat appears to be to my person.
When I almost was in the path of a massive Rock fall while spring skiing my reaction was to get out of there fast to avoid any further rock fall. But you can't let panic interfere with that flight response or panic may cause you to react inappropriately for the given situation..
Driving too fast for a while trying to evacuate might be an inappropriate response that could lead to an accident.
Another example was when I watched a ski partner disappear in the white cloud of an avalanche.
Because the immediate threat of danger didn't directly effect me, a calm set in and my training kicked in. That calm allowed me to assess the situation in order to mitigate any further harm to the victim or myself and begin the rescue action.
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding--Nick Lowe
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
-
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2021 1:25 pm
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion
Thanks Chris. I love this kind of article. I wanted to major in psychology so I am very interested in this. Plus, for myself, I need to look at my behavior and practice awareness. And remain calm and not in denial. In the heat of the moment not always easy. I must say, when we evacuated I did not go into a panic, which is growth for me. I just knew we had to get out of here and fairly quickly. That sound, the sound of the wind and fire. Haunting. I'm sure you may know it too. Chills.
Pearl Cherrington
-
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:22 pm
- Contact:
Re: Cedar Creek/Delancy/Cub Creek Fires
here is a good link that discusses how we often respond to emergency situations that may hinder our preparedness.PAL wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:25 am Very sodden up at our place, 6 miles up Twisp River. Saw quite a bit of lightning to the south, a fair distance away around 10:30 pm. Rained some more.
This will help, but from listening to the recorded meeting last night, I became a bit uneasy when they were talking about the tall grasses in the Twisp River fire burn scar up Little Bridge Cr. I guess they are in there creating some kind of line?
Didn't go to the meeting, as we just got back home, hopefully for good.
Thanks for all the updates here, once again.
Pearl
CERC: Psychology of a Crisis - CDC Emergency Preparedness
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... dMPOOOsfcr
Here's a quote:
"We simplify messages
Under intense stress and possible information overload, we tend to miss the nuances of health and safety messages by doing the following:
■ Not fully hearing information because of our inability to juggle multiple facts during a crisis.
■ Not remembering as much of the information as we normally could.
■ Misinterpreting confusing action messages.
To cope, many of us may not attempt a logical and reasoned approach to decision making. Instead, we may rely on habits and long-held practices. We might
follow bad examples set by others"
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding--Nick Lowe
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
-
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2021 1:25 pm
- Contact:
Re: Cedar Creek/Delancy/Cub Creek Fires
Very sodden up at our place, 6 miles up Twisp River. Saw quite a bit of lightning to the south, a fair distance away around 10:30 pm. Rained some more.
This will help, but from listening to the recorded meeting last night, I became a bit uneasy when they were talking about the tall grasses in the Twisp River fire burn scar up Little Bridge Cr. I guess they are in there creating some kind of line?
Didn't go to the meeting, as we just got back home, hopefully for good.
Thanks for all the updates here, once again.
Pearl
This will help, but from listening to the recorded meeting last night, I became a bit uneasy when they were talking about the tall grasses in the Twisp River fire burn scar up Little Bridge Cr. I guess they are in there creating some kind of line?
Didn't go to the meeting, as we just got back home, hopefully for good.
Thanks for all the updates here, once again.
Pearl
Pearl Cherrington
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:08 pm
- Location: Whidbey Island but relocating to Winthrop
- Contact:
- pasayten
- Posts: 2455
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:03 pm
- Contact:
Re: Davis Lake - anyone know what is going on?
Small lightning strike fire... couple of acres... They hit it hard with a copter and crews are on it forming lines around it. Looking like it may be under control. Was on top of hillside south and east of the lake. More pics on Methow Valley Fire Infi facebook page.
pasayten
Ray Peterson
Ray Peterson
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:08 pm
- Location: Whidbey Island but relocating to Winthrop
- Contact:
Davis Lake - anyone know what is going on?
Update
Lightning fires: new
Davis Lake, south Hwy 20
Lost River area, north Hwy 20
Pleasant Valley, east on Hwy 20
Okanogan
https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3 ... FA3xPSft3M
Lightning fires: new
Davis Lake, south Hwy 20
Lost River area, north Hwy 20
Pleasant Valley, east on Hwy 20
Okanogan
https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3 ... FA3xPSft3M
Last edited by TraciHa on Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- pasayten
- Posts: 2455
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:03 pm
- Contact:
Re: Cedar Creek/Delancy/Cub Creek Fires
Should hopefully have new fire perimeters by 6am... I have noticed different communication levels and timing by each incident team that comes online thru these fires. Latest Cub Creek is very good.
pasayten
Ray Peterson
Ray Peterson
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:08 pm
- Location: Whidbey Island but relocating to Winthrop
- Contact:
Re: Cedar Creek/Delancy/Cub Creek Fires
Evening, any Cedar Creek progression maps or IR more current than these posted? Any status on the north push below Gobblers Knob??
why is Cub Creek more regular and detailed? Its hard to continually modulate my information processing
Seems like there would be a standardized information protocol
why is Cub Creek more regular and detailed? Its hard to continually modulate my information processing
Seems like there would be a standardized information protocol
-
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:22 pm
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion
here's a map that show fire perimeter from August 1st with old burn areas. Its a screen capture so detail might be fuzzy. Wasn't able to down load the map.
https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/43 ... f71212afae
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding--Nick Lowe
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:08 pm
- Location: Whidbey Island but relocating to Winthrop
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion - Global Imaging tools
I have used many available imagery links studying weather and earthquake behaviors, and like this one the best. Many options and combination tools..easy to use also.
Warning: time flys by
https://weather.cod.edu/satrad/?parms=s ... =undefined
Warning: time flys by
https://weather.cod.edu/satrad/?parms=s ... =undefined
- mister_coffee
- Posts: 1417
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:35 pm
- Location: Winthrop, WA
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion
You aren't kidding about remote.
I don't think the Chilliwack River trail downstream from the Copper Ridge trail all the way to Chilliwack Lake has been maintained for many years. My understanding was that the primary users of that trail were folks smuggling marijuana.
Although there is a spectacular sockeye salmon run out of Chilliwack Lake in August that is a real impressive sight.
I don't think the Chilliwack River trail downstream from the Copper Ridge trail all the way to Chilliwack Lake has been maintained for many years. My understanding was that the primary users of that trail were folks smuggling marijuana.
Although there is a spectacular sockeye salmon run out of Chilliwack Lake in August that is a real impressive sight.
![Arrow :arrow:](./images/smilies/icon_arrow.gif)
![Idea :idea:](./images/smilies/icon_idea.gif)
- pasayten
- Posts: 2455
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:03 pm
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion
North Cascades National Park Service Complex
News Release: Bear Creek Fire
A large fire is active in the Chilliwack area in North Cascades National Park. The Bear Creek Fire was detected Friday morning and is about 100 acres and growing.
Firefighters are assessing the fire for opportunities to safely engage. The fire is in a remote area of the Stephen Mather Wilderness with steep terrain and a heavy, low-moisture fuel load as the result of an abnormally dry, hot summer.
Park officials have closed portions of the Copper Ridge and Chilliwack trails due to the fire’s proximity. The Copper Ridge Trail is closed from Copper Lookout to the junction with the Chilliwack Trail. The Chilliwack Trail is closed from the junction of Brush Creek Trail to terminus. Copper Lake, Bear Creek, Indian Creek, and Little Chilliwack camps are also closed.
The cause of the fire is under investigation.
If you see smoke or flames dial 911 or report to a park visitor or information center. Contact the Wilderness Information Center for trail information at, 360-854-7245.
News Release: Bear Creek Fire
A large fire is active in the Chilliwack area in North Cascades National Park. The Bear Creek Fire was detected Friday morning and is about 100 acres and growing.
Firefighters are assessing the fire for opportunities to safely engage. The fire is in a remote area of the Stephen Mather Wilderness with steep terrain and a heavy, low-moisture fuel load as the result of an abnormally dry, hot summer.
Park officials have closed portions of the Copper Ridge and Chilliwack trails due to the fire’s proximity. The Copper Ridge Trail is closed from Copper Lookout to the junction with the Chilliwack Trail. The Chilliwack Trail is closed from the junction of Brush Creek Trail to terminus. Copper Lake, Bear Creek, Indian Creek, and Little Chilliwack camps are also closed.
The cause of the fire is under investigation.
If you see smoke or flames dial 911 or report to a park visitor or information center. Contact the Wilderness Information Center for trail information at, 360-854-7245.
pasayten
Ray Peterson
Ray Peterson
- mister_coffee
- Posts: 1417
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:35 pm
- Location: Winthrop, WA
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:22 pm
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion
Edit; thanks David for rotating that picture to its correct orientation. I tried it a few times and it didn't work.
Last edited by Fun CH on Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding--Nick Lowe
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
- mister_coffee
- Posts: 1417
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:35 pm
- Location: Winthrop, WA
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion
This looks like the Boulder Creek Road:
![Image](https://wildfiretoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Cascade-Type-2-IA-crew-on-Cub-Creek-2-Fire-July-25-2021.-InciWeb-scaled.jpg)
Image from https://wildfiretoday.com/2021/07/29/bi ... ed-report/.
![Image](https://wildfiretoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Cascade-Type-2-IA-crew-on-Cub-Creek-2-Fire-July-25-2021.-InciWeb-scaled.jpg)
Image from https://wildfiretoday.com/2021/07/29/bi ... ed-report/.
![Arrow :arrow:](./images/smilies/icon_arrow.gif)
![Idea :idea:](./images/smilies/icon_idea.gif)
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:08 pm
- Location: Whidbey Island but relocating to Winthrop
- Contact:
Re: Cedar Creek/Delancy/Cub Creek Fires
Sharing comfort of song to friends, neighbors and the heros all
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Er2dORjdKhA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Er2dORjdKhA
-
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:22 pm
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion
It would be interesting if someone were to over lay the current fire perimeter maps with hot spot information over that 20 year fire map. ( I don't have that computer skill)
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding--Nick Lowe
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
- pasayten
- Posts: 2455
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:03 pm
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion
NFIC Fire Perimeter KML file for Google Earth/Google Maps
1. Each night, after a scheduled aircraft flight, an infrared perimeter file may be created for the Cedar Creek, Delancy, and Cub Creek 2 fires.
2. If the flight is successful, the perimeter file is available on the NFIC site at about 6am PDT.
3. If the flight is unsuccessful, the previous infrared file will be “updated” instead with the latest satellite sensors (MODIS/VIIRS) and a revised perimeter file created.
4. During the day, the 6am infrared file may also be updated by the above method in 3… Usually in the afternoon.
5. I periodically download the most current perimeter file from the NFIC site using filters for only our fires to make a small KML file as there are over 3200 fires in the NFIC database for 2021. (Note… I previously zip compressed this file… with filters I do not need that step anymore!)
6. To use this file, download attachment from the BB. Double click the KML file and Google Earth will start and load the fire perimeters. Note that I modify Google Earth properties for the fire perimeter data layer to set perimeter outlines to red and 3.0 lines size. I set poly fill to red and 25% opacity. You may use whatever you wish.
I have created a separate topic for future downloads of the perineter files...
https://pasayten.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=77
1. Each night, after a scheduled aircraft flight, an infrared perimeter file may be created for the Cedar Creek, Delancy, and Cub Creek 2 fires.
2. If the flight is successful, the perimeter file is available on the NFIC site at about 6am PDT.
3. If the flight is unsuccessful, the previous infrared file will be “updated” instead with the latest satellite sensors (MODIS/VIIRS) and a revised perimeter file created.
4. During the day, the 6am infrared file may also be updated by the above method in 3… Usually in the afternoon.
5. I periodically download the most current perimeter file from the NFIC site using filters for only our fires to make a small KML file as there are over 3200 fires in the NFIC database for 2021. (Note… I previously zip compressed this file… with filters I do not need that step anymore!)
6. To use this file, download attachment from the BB. Double click the KML file and Google Earth will start and load the fire perimeters. Note that I modify Google Earth properties for the fire perimeter data layer to set perimeter outlines to red and 3.0 lines size. I set poly fill to red and 25% opacity. You may use whatever you wish.
I have created a separate topic for future downloads of the perineter files...
https://pasayten.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=77
- Attachments
-
- NFIC_Fire_Perimeters_07300225.kml
- (158.73 KiB) Downloaded 476 times
pasayten
Ray Peterson
Ray Peterson
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:08 pm
- Location: Whidbey Island but relocating to Winthrop
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:22 pm
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion
I'm struck by all the small tents set up at the firecamps. So a young firefighter is exposed to smoke all day working and at night they return to sleep in heat and smoke that has settled into the valley.
Is that a choice or are we to cheap to provide tax dollars for temporary shelters at fire camps that offer hepa air filtration, air conditioning and a comfortable bed?
Shouldn't firefighter safety include mitigating any long-term damage that they may be doing to their lungs?
Is that a choice or are we to cheap to provide tax dollars for temporary shelters at fire camps that offer hepa air filtration, air conditioning and a comfortable bed?
Shouldn't firefighter safety include mitigating any long-term damage that they may be doing to their lungs?
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding--Nick Lowe
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
- mister_coffee
- Posts: 1417
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:35 pm
- Location: Winthrop, WA
- Contact:
Re: Wildfire Discussion
![Arrow :arrow:](./images/smilies/icon_arrow.gif)
![Idea :idea:](./images/smilies/icon_idea.gif)
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests