Pasayten's Methow Valley Bulletin Board

From "Two Bad Ideas of the (Morally) Self-Righteous" ( https://theelectricagora.com/2020/01/23 ... righteous/ ):

The second – and it is intimately related to and entwined with the first – is that those whom the (self) righteous believe are Bad People deserve neither quarter nor pity. The idea isn’t just that The Bad deserve what they get, a kind of melancholic observation of what comes of bad Karma, but that we should put the boot in (especially when they are down) and should be brutal in doing it…and pitiless afterwards.

Rideback, your positions are blatantly political ‘universal health care, etc.’ Is killing a one year old “sad, unfortunate and bluntly ugly thing”? We seem to determine it’s illegal! Maybe find a principle that doesn’t prove your ignorance.

One can agree that abortion is a sad, unfortunate, and bluntly ugly thing and still believe that outlawing it and making it a crime is a completely inappropriate and ultimately futile response.

Kind of like throwing the mentally ill in jail.

Ken, you said you weren't beholden to my politics so I responded that the abortion crisis has nothing to do with my politics. Why do you think it's a political issue?

So what? Answering questions no one asked.

Ken, my positions have nothing to do with my political affiliation. I held the same positions when I was a registered Republican then later when I registered as an Independent and now as a Democrat, so you're really missing the boat when your try and make this a political issue. It simply isn't.

I’m happy to be Bonhoeffer.

I'll just eat some popcorn and enjoy...

Ken can be pretty comical when he attempts to dance in moral outrage.

Thanks for the comic relief.

Shove it where the sun doesn’t shine! I’m not beholden to your politics because I think too many babies are killed needlessly and out of pure convenience. And I do support people in ALL stages of life and infirmary, I’ve been an emergency responder for 30 years!

Finish the sentence. Make the commitment to those unborn children to give them health care, to make each child identifiable as a person that needs nurturing, stop hiding behind your moral outrage that doesn't hold up when life's examples cross your path. Banning abortions doesn't save children's lives, it kills the mothers.

And children aren’t disposable.

I figured you'd say that Ken, which is why I also posted the current day story of the Texas woman. But since you haven't noticed, the states that are implementing laws that were in effect pre Roe have now put women in the same position as Debbie Reynolds. Your ideals may seem lofty from a distance but when the real world effects of women in dire straits enter the story you can't take it and so revert to denial again.

Women are not livestock.

How desperate you are (and HuffPost) to go back to the 60s to try to justify evil! Your second story literally says Drs are “nervous”!

Yeah, yeah, just move the goalposts and deny that there are any unintended consequences from the changes you have advocated. It is easy to be an extremist if you can just deny that anything bad will ever happen if you get your way.

Somebody who really believed in the righteousness of their cause would argue that letting innocent women suffer is worth it because you are saving so many babies. Of course because right-wingers are moral cowards they would never argue that...

I already posted this story once Ken, but unsurprisingly you never read it. So here's an example of a woman who was refused an abortion, pre Roe, when her fetus died inside her and so was forced to carry the dead baby. btw her name was Debbie Reynolds.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/debbie-r ... 16845cd420

And currently a Texas woman was forced to carry her dead fetus. Note the first line of the article, the same procedures are used to treat a miscarriage as an abortion

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2022/ ... nt-vpx.cnn

You’ve shown no law or ruling just a confused Dr and a desperately sensationalized story for political effects.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... tus-stell/

I quote:

As The Post recently reported, doctors in multiple states say the standard of care for miscarriages, as well as ectopic pregnancies and other common complications, are being scrutinized, delayed, or even denied. In Texas — where Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) is suing the Biden administration over federal rules requiring abortions to be provided in medical emergencies to save the life of the mother — some doctors are reporting that pharmacists have begun questioning patients who they suspect could be using their miscarriage medications for abortions.

Just saying, but if you believe this (abortion bans) are righteous you should be a man and own any ugly consequences. Don't be a coward and pretend they don't happen.

You are such a liar PAL, no one is forced to carry a dead baby! Such lies and mis-information being pushed so you all can keep killing babies at will!

Medival. This now involves the freedom of speech which last time I checked is in the Constitution.

"The memo further warned employees that they could not speak in support of abortion and should “proceed cautiously at any time that a discussion moves in the direction of reproductive health”, reported the Hill." (I still can't do this highlighted quote thing)

What country or countries does this remind you of?

Also, it will be interesting to see if the birth rate goes done. I think it is being found that women are becoming concerned about getting pregnant because they may not get the health care they need. Like, there are instances where she is being made to carry the fetus to term, if it is dead.
Or if in a miscarrage all of the tissue does not come out and has to be scraped out.
Be glad we are in Wa. state, but I feel for my sisters elsewhere.

And now;

Staff and Faculty at the U of Idaho are cautioned about providing condoms to students, except ‘to prevent sexually transmitted infections’.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... th-control

“The memo laid out the university’s reproductive policies following the enactment of Idaho’s abortion law, which bans the procedure in nearly all cases.

The memo further warned employees that they could not speak in support of abortion and should “proceed cautiously at any time that a discussion moves in the direction of reproductive health”, reported the Hill.

The advice on birth control was included because of the law’s lack of clarity on “prevention of conception”, the university said, according to the Idaho Capital Sun.

Staff have been prohibited from recommending or referring abortion to a student. Employees have also been told not to issue emergency contraception – the so-called morning after pill, also known as Plan B – except in cases of rape.”

So, PREVENTING pregnancy is the same as abortion? What is next? Some ‘masturbation = murder’ scenario?

The OP is making the faulty assumption that the difference in treatment for a miscarriage and an abortion is generally distinguishable after the fact.

Jingles, so you're now including the day after pill in your litany? What would you have said to the woman in the article I posted?

mister_coffee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:04 am

Jingles wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:13 am First off there is a major difference between miscarriages, ( spontaneous miscarriage) and chemically or surgically induced abortions and lumping both into a single classification is like classififying apples and tomatoes the same because they are both red.

Okay.

You are proposing murder charges against people involved in an abortion. Presumably you want there to be evidence of a murder before such charges are brought, and presumably you want those charges proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Okay. 24 hours after a miscarriage or abortion, how exactly does an investigator tell the difference between the two? Keep in mind that miscarriages are traumatic and unpleasant experiences for women and they aren't likely to voluntarily submit to a medical examination to search for evidence of a crime in their own body. Keep in mind also that doctors can lose their license and be sued into the ground if they give up patient medical records to a third party. Even if that party is law enforcement investigating a potential murder.

Very simple that even simple minded folks can understand
Chemical and surgical abortions be made criminal and prohibited except in the case of rape, incest or imminent threat to a morhers health.