Pasayten's Methow Valley Bulletin Board

dorankj wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:59 am How does it “might become” a baby? I don’t think you understand science!

Um, ten to twenty percent of pregnancies end with miscarriages, and if the miscarriage occurs before a certain time the conceptus never becomes a baby. Where the exact line is is rather fuzzy and subject to debate.

The interesting thing about miscarriages is under the new regime in many states, any of those miscarriages could potentially be a crime. I guess the police are going to be awful busy sorting that out...

Ken, you don't get it. What makes you think getting an abortion is something women just do for the heck of it? It is a serious decision and Guess What? It is not yours to make. So tired of "so called" Christians and their attitudes toward women. That's right, no woman has been spontaneously made pregnant since the "Virgin Mary" - who of course, gave birth to a man to was a apparently the almighty Savior of the world. There-in lies the built -in crux of some men's belief that they are superior and get to make choices that are NOT their to make.

How does it “might become” a baby? I don’t think you understand science!

I don’t think you understand federalism.

Calm down, my a..
Hey and what about all those frozen embryos, thousands of them in freezers, waiting to be implanted. Some probably get thawed out and never make it.
Abortion choice is not a whim.
There are at least 80 corporations helping women to cross state lines if need be, for health care choices and abortion, For once I applaud the power of the corporations. They are forging ahead despite the laws. They may force the issue, so there will be court cases.
Also, a 10 yr. old girl in Ohio was raped and then it was discovered she was 6 wks. and 3 days pregnant and it was too late, according to the arcane, backwards law of Ohio for her to get an abortion. But she was transported to Indiana where it was still legal. Not for long.
These are the kinds of things the Supreme Court did not take into account or the states.
Democracy, right, when the majority of Americans thought the Court should not overturn Roe v Wade. The majority in a democracy, not the minority, get that?

dorankj wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:02 am You took this long to come up with that? You’re such a nutball! I’m sure you’re really convincing people that we should keep letting babies be killed on a whim with this nonsense reasoning.

It is not a baby at fifteen weeks. It is a collection of cells that might become a baby.

I guess I would recommend you not move to those states if you don’t like it. Sometimes your fellow citizens don’t make the choices you would like (kinda like the last 49 years of Roe!) Democracies can be tough.

Answer the question. Pro life states have already made their laws, they don't take into consideration women with cancer who are undergoing treatment that will affect a fetus or a baby.

You can't dodge this one, today women are facing what the Dobbs case is going to do to their lives, it's not an abstract, it's real for them.

Calm down.

That's not good enough. And you can't dodge the question. Individual states are not addressing the cancer aspect, read the article, women and their fetuses will die, babies will be impacted if not killed. This has to be addressed at every level and the medical community is being hung out to dry. Show me one pro life state that has even taken this into consideration.

Like SCOTUS said, each state will decide through their representatives who create law, you know democracy!

You're not addressing reality. How does your pro life 'kill no babies' stance address women who have cancer? Read my link

You took this long to come up with that? You’re such a nutball! I’m sure you’re really convincing people that we should keep letting babies be killed on a whim with this nonsense reasoning.

dorankj wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:46 pm Your fingernails will never be a separate being with individual DNA! (don’t you think of yourself as a ‘man of science’?)
...

My fingernails have complete copies of my DNA and typically have quite a a few living cells still in them. In theory (if not yet in practice) any of those cells could be cloned and made into a copy of me. So maybe after cloning technology is perfected will we outlaw clipping fingernails?

Now when you talk about individual DNA, what about identical twins? Since they have identical DNA are they just one person or two? So if a pair of identical twins get married to two different people is it bigamy? Or if they marry the same person is it not polygamy because they are just one person?

You can make this really simple if you just refuse to think about it and sloganeer.

Cancer clinics and hospitals are weighing in on how the Dobbs opinion will affect treatment for women with cancer. The choices are grim but this is the reality women have always had to make with their doctors.
https://cancerletter.com/the-cancer-letter/20220701_1/

We aren't talking about banning abortion after fifteen weeks. We are talking about banning all abortions.

And ridiculous side effects of this silly ban are roaring down at us. There is already "serious" talk about restricting interstate travel of women, prosecuting women for miscarriages, and holding people legally liable in one state for things that happened in another state, where those things are perfectly legal.

I say "serious" because supposed elected representatives and overenthusiastic district attorneys are saying those things. In reality no sane person would consider any of those things serious.

Debbie Reynolds 1989 interview recounting having to carry a dead fetus until it almost killed her.

https://crooksandliars.com/2022/06/debb ... eak-forced

Check your facts on abortion in the developed world: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ion-makes/

Funny, most of the rest of the developed world won’t allow abortions after 15 weeks. But I’m sure some hardcore far lefty can be trusted!

So women become spontaneously pregnant? I’ve worked nearly 30 years in emergency medicine, I never have seen that!

And PAL, I never said only ‘my side’ is caring but speaking up for those who can’t themselves IS a virtue!

David, well said.

9th Amendment:

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

So even though the constitution doesn't explicitly say so, I think that women have a right to be treated as human beings and not farm animals. On the other hand, a conceptus doesn't have rights that are separable from the rights of the woman carrying it.

Yes, Ken misses the point. My choice matters in this because someone else wants women to be forced to bear a child. Abortion is a very personal choice. These are mainly men and they want control and some are very cruel and seem to want to punish women.

"Your idea that 'only my choice matters', that caring people only exist on 'your' side demonstrates the willful ignorance on your part because you don't complete the thought. Caring people and a caring govt are the ones that provide prenatal care, contraception, paid leave from work, education and a social safety net. Caring people and their govt protect 11 year old children from their family rapists and don't dictate to that child that they give birth of their sibling when that birth will endanger their own life and mark their chances for life. Caring people deal in reality that life is not black and white, that there are exceptions that have to be included in decision making."

Thanks Rideback for pointing this out. Life is indeed not black and white that Ken so desparately wants it to be.

Read my links about what a govt looks like that takes on the role of deciders for the well being of an individual, how we left that territory when slavery was abolished, you are entirely missing the point of what freedom and civil rights are all about in this Country. My links talk about the history of abortion which you seem determined to turn a blind eye to.

Your idea that 'only my choice matters', that caring people only exist on 'your' side demonstrates the willful ignorance on your part because you don't complete the thought. Caring people and a caring govt are the ones that provide prenatal care, contraception, paid leave from work, education and a social safety net. Caring people and their govt protect 11 year old children from their family rapists and don't dictate to that child that they give birth of their sibling when that birth will endanger their own life and mark their chances for life. Caring people deal in reality that life is not black and white, that there are exceptions that have to be included in decision making.

Read the links, this is a much more complicated issue than you acknowledge.

Government does regularly ‘interfere’ when innocent life is killed, why is only your choice the one that matters? Don’t caring people speak and protect those who can’t speak or defend themselves?