Roe vs. Wade

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dorankj
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

Post by dorankj »

Maybe the above story should be posted under crime and criminal behavior and we should focus on the heinous act of a horrible rapist and how to best punish him (also so no one else will think of committing such an act!) and not about how insistent we are to kill the baby. We should also work to provide care for this child who’s having a child and protect all children from these monsters. I pray the best care (medical and spiritual) is provided to the children and in my opinion the rapist is castrated in the most horrible way possible and then hung from a tall tree!
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pasayten
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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Arrest made in rape of Ohio girl that led to Indiana abortion drawing international attention
Bethany Bruner
Monroe Trombly
Tony Cook
The Columbus Dispatch
A Columbus man has been charged with impregnating a 10-year-old Ohio girl, whose travel to Indiana to seek an abortion led to international attention following the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v Wade and activation of Ohio's abortion law.

Gershon Fuentes, 27, whose last known address was an apartment on Columbus' Northwest Side, was arrested Tuesday after police say he confessed to raping the child on at least two occasions. He's since been charged with rape, a felony of the first degree in Ohio.

Columbus police were made aware of the girl's pregnancy through a referral by Franklin County Children Services that was made by her mother on June 22, Det. Jeffrey Huhn testified Wednesday morning at Fuentes' arraignment. On June 30, the girl underwent a medical abortion in Indianapolis, Huhn said.


Huhn also testified that DNA from the clinic in Indianapolis is being tested against samples from Fuentes, as well as the child's siblings, to confirm contribution to the aborted fetus.

10-year-old girl's abortion:Ohio AG Dave Yost cast doubt on 10-year-old rape victim case, now 'rejoices" at arrest

Franklin County Municipal Court Judge Cynthia Ebner said the case did not warrant Fuentes — who is believed to be undocumented — to be held without bond.

Ebner said a high bond was necessary, however, due to Fuentes being a possible flight risk and for the safety of the child involved. Before being arrested, Huhn and Det. David Phillips collected a saliva sample from Fuentes, according to a probable cause statement.

Ebner set a $2 million bond for Fuentes, who is being held in the Franklin County jail.


Charges further confirm story, which that has become abortion debate flash point
The criminal charges and testimony from the Columbus detective further confirm the disturbing story that has become a key flash point in the national furor over the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade.

The Indianapolis Star, a Gannett sister paper of The Dispatch, first reported earlier this month that a 10-year-old rape victim traveled from Ohio to Indiana for abortion services after most abortions became illegal in her home state. The account was attributed to Dr. Caitlin Bernard, an Indianapolis physician who provides abortion services.


The story quickly went viral, appearing in outlets across the globe, and became a top talking point for abortion rights supporters, including President Joe Biden.

"Imagine being that little girl," Biden said Friday as he decried the high court’s decision. "I’m serious. Just imagine being that little girl."

But in recent days, some abortion opponents, Republican politicians and news outlets had criticized the story as unproven.


Story was questioned by Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost on Fox News
Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost questioned the validity of the account during an appearance on Fox News this week.

Yost, a Republican, told Fox News host Jesse Watters that his office had not heard "a whisper" of a report being filed for the 10-year-old victim.

"We have regular contact with prosecutors and local police and sheriffs — not a whisper anywhere," Yost said on the show.

Yost doubled down on that in an interview with the USA TODAY Network Ohio bureau on Tuesday, saying that the more time passed before confirmation made it "more likely that this is a fabrication."

"I know the cops and prosecutors in this state," Yost said. "There's not one of them that wouldn't be turning over every rock, looking for this guy and they would have charged him. They wouldn't leave him loose on the streets ... I'm not saying it could not have happened. What I'm saying to you is there is not a damn scintilla of evidence."

On Wednesday, once news of the arraignment of the Columbus man accused in the child's rape came, Yost issued a single sentence statement:

"We rejoice anytime a child rapist is taken off the streets."


Hearing details investigation, concerns about suspect
During Wednesday’s hearing, Assistant Franklin County Prosecutor Dan Meyer requested Fuentes be held without bond. He said Fuentes is not believed to be in the country legally and there are questions about his identity.

Huhn testified that detectives spoke to Fuentes, through an interpreter, and Fuentes admitted to having sexual contact with the girl. An interpreter was also used during Wednesday's hearing.


The 10-year-old also told police Fuentes was the father of the pregnancy, Huhn testified. Meyer said the girl had just turned 10 recently, meaning she was likely impregnated at 9 years old.

Clark Torbett, an attorney with the Franklin County Public Defender’s office, said it was unconstitutional to hold Fuentes without bond, especially with DNA confirmation of the pregnancy’s father still pending.

He said Fuentes had lived in Columbus the last seven years and had a steady job at a café. He also had an address where he could live that was not at the same location as the 10-year-old.

If convicted, Fuentes would face a potential life sentence in prison.

Data shows frequency of reports of sexual abuse of children
An analysis of Columbus police reports filed since May 9 found 50 reports of rape or sexual abuse involving a person 15 years or younger. That number of reports may also be underreported because of restrictions on public records related to reports initiated by mandated reporters. The report involving the 10-year-old girl falls into that category.

In 2020, there were 52 abortions in children 15 or younger in Ohio, accounting for .3% of the 20,605 abortions performed that year, according to the Ohio Department of Health. Data from the health department shows there were 63 such procedures in 2019, 54 in 2018, 61 in 2017 and 76 in 2016.

Data from 2021 is not yet available.

Indiana lawmakers expected to enact abortion ban
The ability of Ohio residents to seek abortion services in Indiana could soon be curtailed.

Indiana Gov. Eric Holcomb, a Republican, has called a special legislative session that is scheduled to convene on July 25. Republicans, who hold supermajorities in both chambers of the Indiana General Assembly, have pledged to enact new abortion restrictions.

Legislative leaders have been tight-lipped about what the legislation will look like. They haven't said whether their abortion proposal will allow for exemptions for rape, incest or life of the pregnant person, or at what point in a pregnancy they'll ban abortion.

Reporters asked Holcomb about the case of the 10-year-old rape survivor on Tuesday. He called it a "horrific example," but declined to say whether he was comfortable banning abortions in cases involving young rape victims.

"I am reserving comment until we see a bill," he said.

Will Ohio Republicans ban nearly all abortions? Can anyone stop it?
A ban on nearly all abortions in Ohio is likely coming.

Ohio's GOP-controlled General Assembly is expected to ban abortions even earlier than the current six-week ban, with no exceptions for victims of rape or incest.

Lawmakers are still crafting language on when abortions would be banned, but past proposals barred the procedure after fertilization, which could prohibit some birth control.

Republicans, who hold veto-proof majorities in the Ohio House and Senate, have the votes to pass such a ban without any Democratic support.
pasayten
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Rideback
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

Post by Rideback »

Link to the regs? I ask out of curiosity only because it's obvious that an EMT's role has nothing to do with the right of a woman to have an abortion.
By putting this out there you're instead deflecting from the larger issues

From Constitutional law professor Jack Balkin:

'The problem is that the history that Alito recounts—going back to the 13th century—is deeply connected to the subordinate status of women, and to laws and practices that kept women subservient and denied them equal opportunities. Abortion laws were among many others that regulated women’s sexuality and autonomy, and the authors Alito quotes reflect the assumptions of their day. Therefore it is not clear why the Glucksberg test should have any legitimacy with respect to women’s sexual freedom, since it grounds the test for constitutional liberty in deeply unjust and inequitable practices. Put another way, a reason why women’s reproductive rights likely would not be deeply rooted in the Nation’s traditions is that traditionally the country was committed to keeping women from having very many rights. Conversely, it is no accident that reproductive justice claims start to get taken seriously as soon as women start to win a broad range of equal rights in American society. Indeed, abortion and contraceptive rights were key demands of the women’s movement in the 1970s.'
dorankj
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

Post by dorankj »

When I provide emergency care for a pregnant woman I’m required to also care for the baby or my license can be pulled, why is that you think?
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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Yes, yes but of course we have a concerning issue about another life that deserves consideration at a minimum!
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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You know, all we want is to be able to choose what we want to do with our health care provider, with no interference from anyone. It is no ones business. Not yours even yours Ken.
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dorankj
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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No, just because I don’t play your version of this game in no way allows you to label me as ‘uncaring’ or unwilling to help anyone or any children. You simply have no logical basis to arrive at that conclusion, you’re simply desperate to affix some ‘terrible’ label to make yourself feel better. If your positions sound “crass” in your ears maybe YOU should consider why you hold them!
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

Post by Rideback »

What an incredibly crass thing to write. I'll say again, in all your writings and opinions you never one say what you support in the way of protecting or nurturing a baby, which leads me to now understand that you simply don't care.
dorankj
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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Well, like all items not defined or protected by the constitution (10th amendment) it will be decided by the states (“or the people themselves “). Have you ever heard of federalism? Don’t worry, you’ll be able to kill all the babies you want, up to any age here in Washington.
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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dorankj
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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Oh, you extreme leftists do like your projection and gaslighting!
PAL
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

Post by PAL »

Total deflection here.
"Does a special needs child “totally dependent on the mother” get to be put to death if the mother no longer wants it? Will society take an interest and have a say so if there will be any consequences for that action? I don’t think you’ve thought these arguments through very well but I’m sure you’ll just say I’m stupid and not actually explain what reasoning, principle or moral you’re using to justify this comment."
Yep, you know the facts about Covid, since you've had it twice or you indicated that.
They are finding that some after effects of Covid do cause loss of brain matter. I won't call you stupid, because I don't think that is the word for you.
Hey, you have strong beliefs. Others on here do too. Allow those beliefs. I'm not going to try to change your mind and you won't mine. But the US is all about freedom to choose, IMO, and that is being eroded.
But you are self righteous and angry at everyone else on here.
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dorankj
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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So many fallacies PAL! One minute you demand the court’s be followed (settled law on Roe) when you agree, the next ‘question the courts, they’re rogue!’

Many times women don’t even know they’ve lost their child but I assure you no one is forcing them to carry a dead baby! I know about loosing a child first hand and the medical procedure needed after.

A woman (and man) need to exercise their “options” before getting to the point of killing a healthy innocent child.

Does a special needs child “totally dependent on the mother” get to be put to death if the mother no longer wants it? Will society take an interest and have a say so if there will be any consequences for that action? I don’t think you’ve thought these arguments through very well but I’m sure you’ll just say I’m stupid and not actually explain what reasoning, principle or moral you’re using to justify this comment.

I explained to you, Thomas is referring to a court that will follow constitutional law not bring legislation from the bench. Only lawmakers can pass laws (as long as they’re constitutional). You radical leftists have been getting the courts to make legislation you couldn’t get the congress to pass for so long you don’t even remember how our system is designed! If you find that “menacing” I think that’s your problem, not a legal doctrine.

My ‘science’ on Covid is pretty backed by actual results, your side has had to make up and change your ‘data’ when reality smacks you in the face and your predictions don’t come to pass. But keep grasping those straws.
PAL
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

Post by PAL »

Again, we don't know what this Court will do. Look at Texas, banning all abortions. Ohio, no abortion for a 10 yr. old rape victum.
They may not watch a woman die, but she might die slowly. Some women have had to carry a dead fetus for a number of weeks.
Sure these may be few and far between instances, but a woman needs to have options.
A zygote, totally dependent on the mother, part of the mother, not separate.
Invasion of privacy is what this is.
Why did Thomas bring up the question of contraception? Just to be menacing? To Lord it over? This too is a privacy issue. No Court should have any say and neither should anyone with their opinions that are like concrete.
So now you are hot on science Ken. You sure aren't when it comes to Covid.
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dorankj
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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The article lies right out of the gate, the decision was 6-3.
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

Post by Rideback »

Sure, let's all cheer taking away rights from American citizens, what could possibly go wrong with going back to the Dark Ages?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... sness.html
dorankj
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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Justice Thomas has indicated the court may look into decisions wrongly decided (not constitutional) you guys only ever look at your desired outcomes and not whether there is legal (or moral) principles for justification.

Nobody will ‘force’ a woman to carry a dead fetus or watch her die to save the baby, you’re so ridiculous when you use those ‘justifications’, that’s absurd.

I’m in support of holding men fully accountable for their actions (or in-action) that result in pregnancy many, many choices and controls are available.

It’s not a “cell” (science please!) it’s completely separate DNA that is a completely separate life from it’s mother or father and, once again constitutional rights are not ‘bestowed’ by the majority. So whether or not I’m in the “minority” is irrelevant!
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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Well, we've got to be prepared. I don't think we are freaking out. Clarence Thomas has indicated he would like to look at contraception. And people are transferrring frozen embryos to states of choice.
With this ultra conservative, wayward court, no one knows what they will do next. They want to mess who determines the votes in each state.
Late term abortions are usually not decided on a whim. By the time the pregnancy gets that far, it is usually a case of a fetus that has died, or the life of the mother is at stake. The majority of people do not take that lightly. But it should be an option for certain cases.
Men are involved in bringing a separate DNA life into existance. You say many controls can be exercised to prevent that. Sometimes those controls fail.
You are in the minority when it comes to believing a cell has constitutional rights.
Pearl Cherrington
dorankj
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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Yes, yours are, Trump got ya!
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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Your last gasps are pretty chaotic.
dorankj
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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“I doubt very much”, well that doesn’t matter much except to you! I assure you it is life and innocent and should have constitutional rights! If women want body control don’t bring another, separate DNA life into existence, many, many controls can be exercised to prevent that.

PAL, most are against late term abortions, so get your facts straight and thankfully we live in a republic so the ‘majority’ doesn’t get to vote on our rights, no ‘democracy’ decides basic constitutional protections either! You guys don’t have the majorities you think, that’s why you’re all freaking out.
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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From what I understand Roe v Wade was a Supreme Court case. It involved the Constitutional right to privacy. That is in the Constitution. Hence Roe v Wade upheld privacy. But not anymore. But there is a force, a force of women united, so watch out world.
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

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Majority of Americans are Pro Choice. What part of that do you not get Ken? Most normal people. Who is that? The majority? Then the majority has been found to support abortion.
You are in the minority. Get that?
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Re: Roe vs. Wade

Post by Rideback »

Your answer about the loss of an innocent life is equal to 'guns don't kill people' from the NRA. Both are deflections. Just as I know that another unarmed man won't shoot me, I know that abortion is about access even more fundamental than the right to bear arms. It's history goes back throughout this Country's beginnings and beyond. No one can say that abortion is singularly about taking an innocent life, full stop, that's simply a talking point that attempts to politically detonate what is a much larger and problematic situation that needs comprehensive policies, including recognition of civil rights. Your argument reminds me of someone saying they went to 6th grade so they consider themselves educated but then can't understand why they can't get a job.

Not once have I read where you've proposed or even supported any policies that protect and nurture children.
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