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Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:01 am
by dorankj
And now it’s out, good proper constitutional finding! Everytown uses such political bias language, I wouldn’t follow them.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:57 am
by Rideback
One of the court decisions this month, 100 year old NY law about concealed carry
https://www.everytown.org/what-you-need ... z_aUKpUcf4
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:38 am
by Rideback
Jim, good points from HCR and it's always worthwhile to re read the original text. The Senate talks were back on track over the weekend and it looks like the financing for the non compliant Red Flag states and the 'boyfriend' laws are getting closer to being resolved. Meanwhile more shootings over the weekend.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:31 pm
by dorankj
Jim, that argument (angle) has already been tried here.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:47 pm
by just-jim
A good recap of the history of how the 2nd Amendment has been twisted and mis-interpreted…
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/may-24-2022
“….The Second Amendment to the Constitution, on which modern-day arguments for widespread gun ownership rest, is one simple sentence: “A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” There’s not a lot to go on about what the Framers meant, although in their day, to “bear arms” meant to be part of an organized militia.
As the Tennessee Supreme Court wrote in 1840, “A man in the pursuit of deer, elk, and buffaloes might carry his rifle every day for forty years, and yet it would never be said of him that he had borne arms; much less could it be said that a private citizen bears arms because he has a dirk or pistol concealed under his clothes, or a spear in a cane.””
caveat…i’m a gun owner, former hunter. And a son and grandson of NRA members, who were both paranoid…
jim Archambeault
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:14 pm
by dorankj
Really? A constitutional amendment repealing the second amendment? I guess my news isn’t as good as yours. Oh, wait you mean a fascist skirting of our founding and ‘show’ efforts that really won’t do anything so the dirtbag politicians (and political types) can keep using this issue to divide us and try for more power. I forgot for a second who I was talking to, carry on.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:50 pm
by Rideback
The work is being done in Congress this weekend. Like so many things there the sausage making of the process is aggravating, but they are chipping away at it.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:19 pm
by dorankj
That’s a pretty tired non sequitur, I hope our other constitutional rights aren’t subject to that argument (founders didn’t know about cell phones and internet but that doesn’t change free speech principles!). But let’s say you’re serious, then do the hard work of proposing a constitutional amendment to change the second amendment like we did for prohibition. Good luck with 2/3 of the states!
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:57 am
by Rideback
Of course the Founders had no idea that cars would be in our future which is why they set up a Legislative, Judicial and Executive branch to write and enforce policies as our society added innovations, ethical challenges & modernization. The Founders didn't give NOAA the right to put up satellites to monitor the weather either but they did give us the framework to adapt. The Founders didn't envision corporate monopolies but they did give us the framework to break them up.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:35 pm
by dorankj
Yep! There’s no constitutional ‘right’ to drive.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:50 am
by Rideback
Pasayten, you and I are about the same age. To get a license I had to pass a course in high school that took a month to complete and simultaneously had to have a high school driving instructor physically drive with us after classes every week for that month. Then I had to take a driving & written test at the DMV. When I moved to Wash I had to take another driving & written exam. Every 4 years I had to take a written exam until I was in my mid 30's.
When I was caught speeding to get to work, I got a ticket and a fine. When I drive I must carry proof of insurance or face the consequences. When I sell my car I have to notify Olympia.
There's a difference.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:02 am
by mister_coffee
Arguing that it is "society's fault" is an awfully "liberal" argument.
Honestly, whenever I try to game out solutions to this problem that allow kids to go to school without fear of dying in a hailstorm of gunfire I find that all of the solutions that don't touch gun ownership in some (often very limited) ways are onerously expensive and require a very intrusive agency of some kind to identify people at risk of going nuts and murdering others. So onerously expensive that I doubt we'll ever pursue them seriously.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:51 pm
by pasayten
Minimal testing... usually once and that's it... Never had another test and I am 74 y/o... just a quick and easy eye exam every 4 or 5 years and you can hurdle yourself down the highway at 60 mph at oncoming traffic coming at you 60 mph... Throw in texting, drinking/drugs, and road rage, we put an icredible amout of faith in each other...
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, a division of the Department of Transportation, estimates 42,915 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes in 2021
I never went to a driving school or had formal training... Parents taught me starting in large parking lots and then the real roads... Easily studied and passed the written and driving test.
BTW, I would support a basic testing program like we had when I was young for firearms for hunting... The gun safety course. Do they have that anymore fir hunting? Parents also taught me to shoot at informal gun shooting areas. Also remember taking a .22 semi-automatic rifle to the garbage/landfill dump at night with a flashlight taped to the barrel and shooting rats... Bet that is not allowed nowadays...
The State of Washington does have a waiting period law for semi-automatics...
RCW 9.41.092
Licensed dealer deliveries—Background checks.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter and except for semiautomatic assault rifles under subsection (2) of this section, a licensed dealer may not deliver any firearm to a purchaser or transferee until the earlier of:
(a) The results of all required background checks are known and the purchaser or transferee (i) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal or state law and (ii) does not have a voluntary waiver of firearm rights currently in effect; or
(b) Ten business days have elapsed from the date the licensed dealer requested the background check. However, for sales and transfers of pistols if the purchaser or transferee does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, then the time period in this subsection shall be extended from ten business days to sixty days.
(2) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, a licensed dealer may not deliver a semiautomatic assault rifle to a purchaser or transferee until ten business days have elapsed from the date of the purchase application or, in the case of a transfer, ten business days have elapsed from the date a background check is initiated.
Yes, society in the U.S. has really decayed over the years... Maybe in part to the same politics/beliefs of those folks that are now gnashing their teeth over gun control...
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:09 pm
by Rideback
You want to unpack the similarities? One does have to be taught to drive, pass a written and driving exam and from time to time take another written exam and eye exam. One is subject to paying a fine and or going to court if the laws are not followed so there is ongoing regulation.
Gun ownership, not so much.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:50 pm
by pasayten
Rideback wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:02 pm
To my inexperienced eye, a one hour certification would not seem to equate to anywhere near the level of competance that should be required. In many vocations there are required 'continuing education credits' required annually for recertification and likewise a review of any failures to meet minimum standards.
Like driving??? Ha!!!
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:50 pm
by mister_coffee
I would say 50-100 hours per year would be the bare minimum to develop and maintain the necessary skills to not be a danger to yourself and others in a battle.
Note that 50 hours per year is approximately 4 hours per month.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:02 pm
by Rideback
To my inexperienced eye, a one hour certification would not seem to equate to anywhere near the level of competance that should be required. In many vocations there are required 'continuing education credits' required annually for recertification and likewise a review of any failures to meet minimum standards.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:36 pm
by mister_coffee
It isn't so much that classes aren't available, I'm just very doubtful that very many people are taking advantage of those classes.
I'd bet a lot of money that less than 1% of firearm owners are adequately trained on proper and safe use of their weapons in a combat situation.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:56 am
by Rideback
From Ray's link
'In addition to getting a concealed carry permit, Legal Heat provides 1639 qualification that lasts five years. You may either take the course in person at a North 40 Outfitters Washington store location or visit Legal Heat online HERE and enter the coupon code 1639N40 to receive a special discount. The online 1639 Certification course typically takes less than an hour to complete.'
Less than an hour...online.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:02 am
by pasayten
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:44 am
by mister_coffee
pasayten wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:29 am
...
NRA not a factor in "winning" or "losing"... As long as people are also respectful in he knowledge and handling of guns, the people don't lose. Kind of like cars and driving... There are a few that should not have them. They cause people to "lose"
Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who are purchasing firearms certainly are not respectful of their knowledge and handling of guns. Bluntly there are large negative selection factors that make it much more likely that the worst possible people are legally purchasing firearms.
Firearms are tools. A pretty dangerous tool like a chainsaw. You aren't going to increase your safety by just purchasing a firearm. There is a lot of training and practice you have to commit to before you actually become an asset and not a liability in a gunfight.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:29 am
by pasayten
Rideback wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:22 am
More guns in our society. Sad that this is the answer people must choose. The NRA wins. People don't.
NRA not a factor in "winning" or "losing"... As long as people are also respectful in he knowledge and handling of guns, the people don't lose. Kind of like cars and driving... There are a few that should not have them. They cause people to "lose"
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:22 am
by Rideback
More guns in our society. Sad that this is the answer people must choose. The NRA wins. People don't.
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:09 am
by pasayten
I am just glad that citizens who are becoming aware of the need for protection in today's society have the right to purchase and bear arms guaranteed thru the Second Amendment... End of story...
Re: Black Americans are buying guns
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:46 pm
by Rideback
The article points out that two things can be true at any given time. People of color are buying guns at unprecidented rates after the Buffalo & Uvalde shooting. That they are looking at those guns as a form of protection is a clear objective.
Are they buying guns because they're afraid they're about to lose their 2nd Amendment right? Notsomuch.
Other sales may reflect people stockpiling AR15's because they fear ownership may be curtailed but so far sales figures of AR15's to people of color aren't showing up.