Sedition

[Rideback]

Yes. But I'm going to call him out when he implies this is a political game. It's so much bigger than that. Benghazi was a political game, this isn'g.

[mister_coffee]

I take his comment about watching the J6 committee hearings on a thread labeled 'sedition' as a complete denial of what they are about as if this is some political game.

I think we all ought to be realistic and realize that there are millions of people who "think" like he does.

[Rideback]

I take his comment about watching the J6 committee hearings on a thread labeled 'sedition' as a complete denial of what they are about as if this is some political game.

[PAL]

But Ken did say he did not condone the insurrection and Trump, in those instances. Am I correct? I thought I read that in one of the posts. I'm too lazy to go find it.

[Rideback]

What makes your comment sad is that you have become so blinded by tribalism that you can't recognize that the J6 event not just a physical attack on the Capitol but a serious attack on our Constitution and our republic that almost came to fruition. Mike Pence was correct when he spoke out and said what happened was illegal, that no one man has the authority in this Country to overrule the will of the people.

Last night's first hearing laid out with testimony from Bill Barr and Ivanka Trump that the President knew he lost the election. He chose to ignore that reality and instead promoted the overthrow of the legal transfer of power. He planned and implemented seven steps of the insurrection.

Next Fall's elections are not the issue here. Pay attention.

[dorankj]

Haha, you’re a joke! Good luck this mid-term.

[PAL]

Watch the Jan. 6th hearings. Then go to Fox News to hear the very untrue things they are saying about it.
They said it was the Trump hating Jan. 6th. Commission and were positive in their knowledge that the American people really don't care about it.
The people watching Fox are being brainwashed, unfortunately.

[dorankj]

Yes, just blows holes! Nothing to see here, just move along plebs.

[Rideback]

From the Combating Terrorism Center @ West Point

'How the FBI Compromised the Conspiracy
Extreme far-right groups are taking an increasing interest in operational security, using encrypted messaging services to obscure indicators that might otherwise signal that an act of violence is imminent.107 The Wolverine Watchmen were no different, their behavior in this sphere regarded as “indicative of their intent” by prosecutors.108 FBI Director Christopher Wray has testified that the plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer “was only disrupted by well-timed human source reporting and the resulting undercover operation.”109 Indeed, a combination of Confidential Human Sources (CHS) and Undercover Employees (UCE) proved integral to the FBI’s ability to overcome the digital counter-measures the group put in place to avoid detection, though there was an element of happenstance in this.

In early 2020, “Dan,” a U.S. Postal Service worker who had served in Iraq110 and held libertarian beliefs, was browsing Facebook when the platform’s algorithm suggested to him that, due to his previous interactions with other pages that supported the Second Amendment and firearms training, he might be interested in a group called the Wolverine Watchmen as well. “I was scrolling through Facebook one day and they popped up as a suggestion post,” he later testified. “I clicked on the page and it had a few questions to answer.”111 Having answered these to the group’s satisfaction, “Dan” joined the militia group, and gained access to their encrypted chats. He quickly became “alarmed” after seeing a post from Musico concerning how to find the home addresses of police officers, interpreting this as a threat to “kill them.”112 Dan informed a friend in the police who relayed the information to the FBI who in turn recruited him to become a confidential informant, referred to as “CHS-2” in the criminal complaint.113

Thus, even before the Wolverine Watchmen had become embroiled in the kidnap plot, the FBI had a source at the heart of the group enabling them to document every step in the conspiracy’s evolution and to interdict it when they perceived the would-be kidnappers were moving from words to action. By the time they arrested the conspirators, the FBI had “multiple” sources within the group, including two UCEs. Indeed, the FBI appears to have had a CHS or a UCE, or both, present at nearly every group meeting, which collectively it either recorded or reported on in one way or another.114 Evidence from these sources (there appear to have been at least four) amounted to “hundreds of hours” of audio recordings and over 13,000 pages of encrypted chat messages, not to mention data recovered from mobile phones and computers as well as firearms and explosive device components that were seized when the men were arrested.115

Other sources of evidence include four separate Facebook accounts set up by Barry Croft, which the FBI had gained access to through a federal warrant from April 2020 onward, including one account, opened on September 26, 2020, through which he and Fox interacted.116 The FBI also gained a warrant for Croft’s two mobile phones, giving them access to the apps and social media accounts that he used to communicate with the group and which now form part of the case against the conspirators.117

Having a human source at the heart of the Wolverine Watchmen before anyone broached the idea of kidnapping Whitmer enabled the FBI to compromise the plotter’s subsequent operational security measures from the outset. During the course of one meeting on June 20, 2020, held in the basement of the shop that Fox was living in, which was only accessible through a trap door hidden under the carpet, all the plotters had to leave their mobile phones upstairs to prevent monitoring. It mattered little. CHS-2 was already wearing a wire and recorded the proceedings. As the plot progressed, the conspirators became increasingly paranoid about the prospect of infiltration by law enforcement and, at a subsequent meeting held in Lake Orion, all attendees were required to bring personal documents that confirmed their identities.118

Since he was a trusted member of the group, CHS-2 had access to their encrypted text messages, their private Facebook group, and recorded the phone calls and conversations he had with the other plotters. Rightly, as it transpired, Franks became worried that the “Feds” had access to their encrypted communications.119 At Harris’ suggestion, the conspirators ditched Wire on August 18, 2020, and then stayed offline until August 23 when they met at his home and adopted a new encrypted messaging service, Threema, which had the virtue of allowing the instantaneous deletion of their messages in the event of contact with law enforcement.120

In this instance, the FBI easily overcame these enhanced operational security measures because they retained access to the group’s encrypted communications through CHS-2, whom the other conspirators continued to trust.121 As previously mentioned, the group regularly employed “code words” in their communications to obfuscate their true intentions, which CHS-2 interpreted for his handlers based on the context of the conversations. When the group attempted to construct an IED while training in Wisconsin, CHS-2 provided the FBI with video of the event together with other photos and videos of their exercises shared in the group’s private Facebook discussions.122

On August 29, 2020, as the plotters’ activities were intensifying, CHS-2 accompanied Fox and another Wolverine Watchman, Eric Molitor, to conduct daytime surveillance of Whitmer’s private vacation home, and later supplied his handlers with an audio recording of the operation. Such was the FBI’s penetration of the group that by the time that Fox briefed eight members of the group about this surveillance effort and his plans to kidnap the governor (during a training exercise staged in Luther, Michigan, over the weekend of September 12-13, 2020), the FBI had a CHS and two UCEs present.123

As already outlined, on the evening of September 12, 2020, the group conducted a nighttime reconnaissance of the governor’s home, making the 80-mile trip from Ty Garbin’s property in Luther to Whitmer’s private vacation home in three vehicles. Several of the men were armed, according to the criminal complaint. Before they left, Fox had another member of the group scan each of the participants with a radio frequency interference device to detect any potential recording or transmitting devices, though this security measure failed to detect any FBI devices.124 The FBI had human sources in two of the cars. In the first car, Fox and Croft were joined by CHS-2, “Red” (an FBI UCE whom CHS-2 had introduced into the group), and “an individual from Wisconsin”125 who was also working for the FBI. This individual’s relationship with the FBI subsequently soured, however, and he currently faces weapons charges.126

When on that September night Fox stopped to inspect the underside of a bridge, which the group had discussed destroying with explosives to divert police away from Whitmer’s home, “Red” accompanied him. Fox discussed where best to place explosive charges before taking a picture of the bridge’s support structure, which he subsequently shared with CHS-2. “Red” told Fox he would need $4,000 worth of explosives to blow up the bridge. Even in the second vehicle, in which the FBI had no human source, the FBI still obtained the digital dash camera footage and its GPS data, which placed the vehicle right at the end of Whitmer’s drive, since one of occupants, Brian Higgins, shared this with CHS-2 who passed it on.127

The FBI moved to shut things down as the group began talking about enacting its plans before the November election but also in response to the “potential compromise” of one of its confidential sources.128 To end things, the FBI had CHS-2 inform the conspirators that “Red” was passing through and would do a “show and tell” for them to pick out the explosives and tactical gear they wanted.129 The journey to meet “Red” on October 7, 2020, was tense. Enroute to the rendezvous point, CHS-2 drove one of the vehicles. Harris sat in the seat behind him, repeatedly loading and unloading a semiautomatic pistol before pointing it at CHS-2’s head leading to an angry exchange of words.130 When Fox and his colleagues arrived to make a “good faith” payment for the equipment, the FBI arrested them.131 Fox had a meager $275 on him when detained.132

As it prepared to make the arrests, the FBI appears to have been concerned about how some in the wider Boogaloo milieu would react. On October 2, 2020, five days prior to the arrest of those now accused of plotting to kidnap Governor Whitmer, FBI agents had attempted to detain a man called Eric Allport on firearms charges. He was killed in the subsequent shootout in the parking lot of a Madison Heights restaurant. Allport had a violent past, having previously served an 11-year prison sentence for shooting at two police officers. Growing up, he and his family had lived next door to, and been friends with, Randy Weaver whose home in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, was subject to an 11-day siege by the FBI that ended in the death of Weaver’s wife and son and a deputy U.S. Marshall in 1992.133 Following his death, Boogaloo adherents hailed Allport as a hero online. Allport’s own Instagram account, since deleted, had included references to the Boogaloo movement, too. He had also posted memes on Facebook including vague threats about what would happen if someone tried to take his weapons.134

While Allport was unconnected to the kidnap plot, The Detroit Free Press, quoting unnamed sources, reported that the FBI had tried to arrest him after becoming aware of his “threatening comments” about the police on social media. Fearing that the arrest of Governor Whitmer’s would-be kidnappers “was just the kind of event that may set Allport off,” according to The Detroit Free Press, “The FBI figured it would have Allport behind bars by the time they arrested the kidnapping suspects and he couldn’t hurt any police officers.”135

The Michigan Plot, January 6, and the Evolution of Domestic Violent Extremism
In hindsight, the storming of the Capitol building in Lansing, which spurred the plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer, has been interpreted as a prelude to the storming of the U.S. Capitol in Washington, D.C., on January 6, 2021, during which four people died.t One journalist present reported having heard at least three different rioters express a desire to execute then Vice President Pence.136 In another echo of the Wolverine Watchmen’s plan to kidnap Whitmer, several of those who stormed the U.S. Capitol building also appeared prepared to take hostages.137

Asked for her thoughts on the violence in the U.S. Capitol, Governor Whitmer saw clear parallels between it and the entry of armed protestors into the Michigan statehouse in April 2020:

I think the worst part is, though, how many people were saying they can’t believe this can happen in the United States of America? All I can think was – were they not paying attention to what happened eight months ago?138

To date, 529 people have been charged federally in relation to the U.S. Capitol insurrection.139 The majority of the Trump supporters involved in storming the U.S. Capitol were unconnected with the organized far-right, though there is evidence of “militant networks, organized clusters, and inspired believers” taking part.140 FBI Director Wray testified that “almost none” of the 500 people charged with participating in the attack had previously been under FBI investigation.141

Among those charged, however, were notable clusters of arrestees from the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and the Three Percenters, the latter group, as noted above, being one with which several of the Wolverine Watchmen had identified.142 In June 2021, six alleged Three Percenters were subsequently indicted on conspiracy charges in relation to the assault on the U.S. Capitol.143 In the wake of the attack, there have been indications that despite the fissiparous nature of the extreme far-right, many of these groups, emboldened by the violence, were, online at least, increasingly cohering around the objective of overthrowing the prevailing political order.144

Highlighting the diffuse geographical distribution of arrestees, at least eight of those arrested for their role in the January 6 violence hailed from Michigan.145 Also among those who stormed the U.S. Capitol was an individual who a photographer had captured yelling at police officers during the anti-lockdown protest in Lansing in April 2020 when armed protestors, including several of those subsequently arrested for plotting to kidnap Whitmer, entered the statehouse building and intimidated lawmakers. This image went viral, helping to define that event visually.146 Another of those subsequently arrested (for assaulting a police officer during the January 6 riot) was a New York man who had searched online for “Gretchen Whitmer” together with the location of gun stores in the days prior to the U.S. Capitol insurrection,147 highlighting the extent of the animosity among these circles toward her. On January 6, 2021, a peaceful “Stop the Steal” rally took place in Lansing, though a bomb threat saw the Michigan State Capitol building closed for several hours the following day.148 u

The Michigan prosecutors have stated they will be recharging the cases where there were hung juries. The whole analysis is here, pretty interesting and blows holes in any talk of FBI overreach.
https://ctc.usma.edu/the-conspiracy-to- ... n-whitmer/

[dorankj]

That’s a little hard when it’s all locked up! I’m sure this upcoming propaganda from oh so fair dems will answer all our questions. I’d rather be talking to the wind than pi**ing in it like you guys!

[Rideback]

You're talking to yourself. The court filings where the defendants lay out what they did and their knowledge of how things happen also address the question of whether the FBI was anywhere near J6, there simply is no documented evidence otherwise. Show your work, if you have proof now's a good time to provide it, otherwise you have ended up just talking to the wind.

[dorankj]

Oh, that’s right the FBI is super forthcoming with their clandestine behavior! How did that Gretchen Whitmer threat end up again?

[Rideback]

It's not my research and the postings from Epps, from the Proud Boys and the Oath keepers also demonstrate personal guilt. If you think there were FBI agents there, no one has shown up to prove that there were. I know you'd like to 'go there' with Tucker Carlson & Alex Jones & Roger Stone but even they have never forked over any proof and they make a living off of the conspiracies not the truth.

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 ... cover-fbi/

'New Jan. 6 revelations on Ray Epps, others undercut Tucker Carlson’s FBI conspiracy theory
There remains no evidence that the attack on the U.S. Capitol was actually a false flag event orchestrated by the FBI to entrap Trump supporters.'

[dorankj]

So no FBI agents whatsoever there that day? Hmmm, not sure your research is really all that good!

[Rideback]

Ray Epps? That conspiracy theory has been toast for months now.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2022 ... -undercut/

[mister_coffee]

Who is Ray Epps?

He was in the Arizona Oath Keepers. So a terrorist traitor.

[dorankj]

Who is Ray Epps?

[Rideback]

Sedition has historically been hard to prove and so the DoJ prosecutors have steered clear. Merrick Garland is the very definition of a cautious prosecutor who simply won't go there without all his t's crossed, i's dotted and his whole team on board that they will get a conviction. Apparently this gang of insurrectionists hired a film crew leading up to J6, and a short clip was released with the indictments. Suffice it to say, these guys are screwed big time.

Heather Cox Richardson

Today the Justice Department filed a superseding indictment charging Proud Boys leader Henry “Enrique” Tarrio and four colleagues with up to ten criminal counts, including seditious conspiracy and conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, in relation to the January 6 insurrection. Sedition is the crime of inciting a revolt against the government, and conspiracy means there was an organized group of people with a plan.
A grand jury indicted Tarrio and Ethan Nordean, Joseph Biggs, Zachary Rehl, and Dominic Pezzola, all of whom had already been charged with crimes; this filing adds to those charges. The indictment says that the five men “did knowingly conspire, confederate, and agree, with other persons known and unknown to the Grand Jury, to oppose by force the authority of the Government of the United States and by force to prevent, hinder, and delay the execution of any law of the United States…. The purpose of the conspiracy was to oppose the lawful transfer of presidential power by force.”
Wow.
The DOJ is acknowledging that the insurrectionists were trying to overthrow the government. As retired Harvard law professor Lawrence Tribe tweeted, “Seditious conspiracy is huge. No more serious federal crime short of treason.”
The indictment alleges these Proud Boys members used their social media platform as leaders of the gang to stir up anger about the election. “It’s time for f**king War if they steal this s**t,” Biggs wrote, referring to the presidential election. Nordean posted on social media: “We tried playing nice and by the rules, now you will deal with the monster you created. The spirit of 1776 has resurfaced and has created groups like the Proudboys and we will not be extinguished. We will grow like the flame that fuels us and spread like love that guides us. We are unstoppable, unrelenting and now…unforgiving. Good luck to all you traitors of this country we so deeply love…you’re going to need it.” Rehl posted: “Hopefully the firing squads are for the traitors that are trying to steal the election from the American people.”
They urged others to join the insurrection, raised money for their trip to Washington, D.C., bought paramilitary equipment, met secretly and used encrypted communications, hid their gang colors to appear incognito, led the crowd to the Capitol, stormed the barricades, destroyed property, and assaulted law enforcement officers, all to prevent Joe Biden from becoming president.
This indictment mirrors that of January 13, 2022, when the Department of Justice indicted the leader of the Oath Keepers, Elmer Stewart Rhodes III, and 10 other members of the group, a far-right antigovernment militia that specializes in recruiting veterans, for a number of crimes including seditious conspiracy in relation to the January 6 insurrection.
Today’s indictment says that Tarrio and his gang coordinated with the Oath Keepers.
But there are pretty broad hints here that they coordinated with others, too. There is still hanging out there that at the presidential debate on September 29, 2020, about a month before the election, Trump told the Proud Boys to “stand back and stand by.” Then, on December 12, 2020, Tarrio published on the right-wing social media site Parler a photo of himself at the White House, saying that he had received a “last minute invite to an undisclosed location.” White House spokesperson Judd Deere later said: “He did not have a meeting with the president, nor did the White House invite him.”
But the Tarrio indictments have always indicated there was something big afoot, and now that seditious conspiracy charges are on the table, they are worth revisiting. Both an earlier indictment and this one have this paragraph: “Between December 30 and December 31, 2020, TARRIO communicated multiple times with an individual whose identity is known to the grand jury. On December 30, 2020, this individual sent Tarrio a nine-page document titled, ‘1776 Returns.’ The document set forth a plan to occupy a few ‘crucial buildings’ in Washington, D.C., on January 6, including House and Senate office buildings around the Capitol, with as ‘many people as possible’ to ‘show our politicians We the People are in charge.’ After sending the document, the individual stated, ‘The revolution is [more] important than anything.’ TARRIO responded, ‘That’s what every waking moment consists of…I’m not playing games.’”
There is also this: As these five Proud Boys were near an entrance to the Capitol, “[s]econds before 12:53 p.m [on January 6], BIGGS was approached by an individual whose identity is known to the grand jury. The individual put one arm around BIGGS’s shoulder and spoke to him. Approximately one minute later, this individual crossed the barrier that restricted access to the Capitol grounds. This was the first barrier protecting the Capitol grounds to be breached on January 6, 2021, and the point of entry” for the Proud Boys.
Both the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers storming the Capitol appeared to fancy themselves as heroic revolutionaries defending America. Clearly egged on by someone talking about “revolution,” they took up a great deal of space in social media and on private chats thumping their chests about “revolution” and “1776.” Charles Donohoe, who was not charged here because he is cooperating with the Department of Justice, wrote that Washington, D.C., officials were limiting access to the city “so that they can deny Trump has the People’s support. We can’t let them succeed. This government is run FOR the People, BY the People…. Congress needs a reintroduction to that fact.”
The Proud Boys—and the Oath Keepers, too—also talked about civil war. When president-elect Biden called for unity after he won the election, Tarrio posted a message on social media saying: “F**k Unity. No quarter. Raise the black flag.” On November 25, 2020, when Biden said, “We need to remember: We’re at war with a virus—not with each other,” Tarrio reposted the statement and added, “No, YOU need to remember the American people are at war with YOU. No Trump…No peace. No quarter.” And January 20, the day of Biden’s inauguration, one Oath Keeper messaged another: “After this…if nothing happens…its [sic] war…Civil War 2.0.”
For all their heroic talk, these men were not the good guys. They were plotting “to oppose the lawful transfer of presidential power by force.” That is, this ragtag crew plotted to take away from the majority of Americans their right, one of the four rights our Founders called “unalienable,” to consent to the government under which we live. That freedom to choose our own leaders was what 1776 meant, not the imposition of the will of a tyrannical minority on the rest of us.
Seventy-eight years ago today, on June 6, 1944, Americans and their leaders stood not for but against those determined to replace democratic government with tyranny. One hundred and fifty-six thousand U.S. and Allied troops and 195,000 sailors and at least 23,000 airmen with 5000 ships and 11,000 planes stormed five beaches along a heavily fortified five-mile stretch in the Normandy region of France to defend the concept of democracy against the tyranny of fascism.
The assault was known as Operation Overlord and more popularly known as D-Day. The day before, knowing that many of the men would not survive the assault, General Dwight Eisenhower reminded the men that they were fighting for the right of individuals to determine their own futures. “The eyes of the world are upon you,” he wrote. “The hope and prayers of liberty-loving people everywhere march with you. In company with our brave Allies and brothers-in-arms on other Fronts, you will bring about the destruction of the German war machine, the elimination of Nazi tyranny over the oppressed peoples of Europe, and security for ourselves in a free world.”
“Your task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is well trained, well equipped and battle-hardened. He will fight savagely. But this is the year 1944!... The tide has turned! The free men of the world are marching together to Victory!”