Have we all gone completely nuts?

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mister_coffee
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Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by mister_coffee »

I guess I'm missing something.

The USA is running about 35,000 cases per day and about 500 deaths per day. Of course the case count is likely grossly undercounted because we can't or won't do adequate testing.

Now 500 deaths per day is over 180,000 deaths per year. That is also enough deaths to significantly impact life expectancy.

So what is the deal here? Most people seem to be acting like this is all over. But people are still dying at a pretty appalling rate. Even during the last major flu pandemic in 1968 we lost 100,000 people per year. COVID is likely to kill well more than twice that this year.

:arrow: David Bonn :idea:
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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by pasayten »

Not nuts... Just re-evaulating their individual risks versus lifestyle restrictions...
Average deaths per day for January 2022...

deaths.png

https://www.statista.com/statistics/125 ... ber-daily/

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by Rideback »

I think I'll do some pushback on the idea that we're just adjusting our sights on covid and putting its deaths into the column of the January '22 deaths. I doubt most Americans are aware of the various causes of death nor where Covid falls into that list. I do suspect that most people fell for the recent punditry who started to talk of Covid no longer as pandemic but instead referred to it as an epidemic. The current numbers world wide don't indicate that we're anywhere near stumbling out of pandemic range and into an epidemic.

Yes, we have more whack-a-mole treatments available, like the 'few-days-after' pill and more antibody treatments but it's worthwhile to remember that the new variants are even more transmissible than the original or even the Delta. And while we are seeing a drop in hospitalizations because of the higher rates of vaccinations, I doubt most people who do test positive appreciate staying home and isolating and/or experiencing the symptoms.

Meanwhile our hospitals are still stretched, the system is fractured, the health care workers have not had time to recuperate and yet the public is tossing their masks in the air rejoicing that we're free! We're not free from Covid, we're vulnerable to it.

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by PAL »

I think people are acting like it's all over and they are really burned out on all of it.
The carefree attitude is because various agencies have said these varients are more contagious, but less lethal, don't have as severe symptoms with us being told there are many with hardly any symptoms. I think what this says to people is that if you are vaccinated, go ahead and lead a normal life. They might get it, it wasn't so bad and on it goes. They risk getting Covid, but living "freely" is more important.
But then...we get to Shangkai. Just what really is going on there? Is there a meaner varient and that is why they are freaking out? Or are they just that way?
OK County is not keeping track. And the state is tracking hospitalizations. So in 2-3 wks. we won't know where we are in the numbers game. The Methow Valley News reports on what the Health Dept. says, so that is a good thing.

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by Rideback »

China right now is one scary situation. Remember they didn't buy into Pfizer or Moderna and have a different vaccination scenario than we do.

Also, at a moment when Putin is setting examples of authoritarianism that China is watching carefully, the Chinese govt finds itself occupied by the mega Covid outbreak and its people are unsettled even to the point of rebellion so China's govt shares with Russia a moment in history where the power of their authoritarian rule is being challenged. Putin thought he could rout the Ukrainians in a matter of days and come out in some variantion of a Russian hero; he thought he could dismantle NATO; he thought the EU would tear itself apart and just the opposite is occuring. China has been watching and recognizes that its own power, economic and otherwise, could be now challenged by worldwide sanctions, corporations cutting off trade, global trade soured and a rebellion of its own peoples.

Covid has changed the world in so many ways and it's not done with us yet. But we can all individually make choices to mask up, not just for ourselves even though we're vaccinated, but so that if we're carriers we don't spread it throughout our community.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... of-dissent

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by mister_coffee »

Can we really think that people are smart enough and well-informed enough to make rational risk-reward decisions on this topic? We are talking about a society where a lot of people think cryptocurrencies are a wise investment.

I 100 percent believe people should be free to make foolish choices as long as those choices don't endanger others, or at least don't endanger them very much. So it is reasonable to outlaw driving while intoxicated. We have multiple legal precedents where we throw people in jail if they knowingly transmit a communicable disease (e.g. with both tuberculosis and HIV). I wonder why we can't apply the same reasoning to COVID-19?

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by mister_coffee »

There are two reasons this situation makes me want to scream in rage:

In the short term, we can't make any guarantees that the next variant won't have a 5 or 6 percent fatality rate (rather than the current case where it is a little under 1 percent) or even higher. What will we do then and where will we dump all of the bodies?

In the longer term, what will happen when an inevitable new pandemic strikes us? We haven't made any serious changes to handle the next one any better and we can be certain that, sooner or later, there will be a new one.

Maybe I should just think of this as Evolution in Action.

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by PAL »

Yes, agree with you here. We are no more ready anymore for a nasty deadlier pandemic than we were, are we?
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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by Fun CH »

Rideback wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:33 pm

https://egc.yale.edu/largest-study-mask ... real-world
Masks are effective

So are vaccines. A guy I know named Gerry (not real name to protect privacy) was riding in the car with his best friend on Monady two weeks ago. Both no masks.

That friend later that day started having nasty flu like symptoms and he tested positive for Covid. The symptoms lasted 24 hours and gone. Gerry never tested positive for Covid or had symptoms.

Both fully vaccinated, both old guys like me nearing the big 70.

Personally I've been in the Dr.'s
office 6 times and hospitol 3 times with a N95 mask on without getting any kind of sick.

Everyone else was masked except on one trip, security had to tell one guy to put on his mask. This guy grumbled at the hospitol staff for asking routine check in questions.

Funny that when Trump mentioned once at a Rally in Alabama to get the vaccine, some of his supporters booed him.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t0Z4J9nY0v4

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by Rideback »

Yes, the vaccines have lived up to their hype and more.
The N95 masks and even the KN95s also do a remarkable job. As the boosters' efficacy lessens over the months, I'm in the camp that thinks good masks become even more important. Moderna's new booster (the 2nd) probably won't be available until Fall as they're upgrading it to protect against the B2 variant, which leaves a gap in protection.

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by Fun CH »

Dr. Fauci has declared that according to the science we are in the endemic stage of this pandemic in the US.

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by PAL »

Why are they flipping out in Shanghai? Also, the latest bird flu strain has jumped over to a human, where else but...China. https://www.google.com/search?q=bird+fl ... e&ie=UTF-8

I wonder, If I went to an indoor gathering in a not too big of space, how many people would be wearing masks around here?
Colds and flu are floating around and before, I never masked knowing I could catch those. But I don't enjoy going to indoor gatherings anyway.
I just remind myself that Covid can cause loss of taste and smell, even mild cases.

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by mister_coffee »

The Chinese vaccine (SinoVax) is less effective than the mRNA vaccines most of us got here. That and they have had an even lower vaccine uptake than we have here make them a lot more vulnerable than we are right now.

Right now I know people in the Shanghai area who have been off the grid and no-contact for over three weeks. Which is a little unnerving.

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by Rideback »

New reporting coming out that Pfizer's pill is having some issues crop up. People that take it report that it works well but then about 5 days after they finish the course the Covid symptoms re emerge. One more reason to get vaccinated and protect yourself up front, wear a mask and continue to social distance.

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by PAL »

Headline from Seattle Times.

COVID-19 overwhelmed a cruise ship that docked in Seattle yesterday. Passengers say more than 100 people tested positive aboard a Carnival ship whose crew was unprepared for the chaos that ensued. Now some are quarantining at local hotels. This comes as new variants pop up "out of the blue," likely reinfecting omicron survivors.

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Re: Have we all gone completely nuts?

Post by mister_coffee »

Apparently we are now past 1_000_000 dead in the United States. I for one never thought it would get to this point.

:arrow: David Bonn :idea:
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