Ukraine

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Re: Ukraine

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realoldtimer wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:32 am More cannon fodder to bolster the frontlines -

"Putin orders 134,500 new conscripts into Russian army"
...
The Rushka army regularly inducts classes of conscripts twice a year on April 1st and October 1st.

It will take quite a while to train them to do anything useful. A lot of the Rushka losses are in combat specialties, which were mostly volunteers who had been with the service for years. Many VDV (Paratroopers and Air Assault) units took fearsome casualties of 30 percent or more. It will take many years to recruit the volunteers and train them to the level of proficiency that those forces had in February 2022.

Yes, you could probably train a draftee to do useful work like driving a truck in a few weeks. At this point their army probably has more truck drivers than working trucks anyway. It is going to take them much longer to train them to be in a tank or artillery crew, where they have to learn a specific and fairly complex job and how to work together with others in that crew and also how to work with other crews at the same time. And you'll want a pretty high level of training on anybody who is handling things that explodes, if only to make sure they don't blow up other, better trained people along with themselves.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by realoldtimer »

More cannon fodder to bolster the frontlines -

"Putin orders 134,500 new conscripts into Russian army"

https://www.axios.com/russia-new-conscr ... 0f1a9.html
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Re: Ukraine

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US Treasury and allies are going after the Russian cyber enablers and yesterday dealt a big blow to the Russian dark$

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0701
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Re: Ukraine

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Gen Milley doesn't agree with you. He told Congress on Tues to expect a protracted war. Putin will not pull out, he will double down and the US and allied weaponry will allow the Ukrainians to hang on to their defensive positions and take back towns and cities that the Russians abandon as they continue to chew on the rest of Ukraine.
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Re: Ukraine

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Rideback wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:44 pm I doubt anyone is positing that the war will continue at the rate and breadth that is happening now. Instead, there seems to be an exhaustion setting in; not just exhaustion of the fighters but of the equipment and weapons as well. Will there be a lowered level of action arrive and will that be sustained, with minimal fits, starts & stops for an extended period? That is what seems to be the incoming prediction...
My question is why would you assume that both sides would be exhausted at the same time? And why would you assume that they would have similar recovery times as well?

My point is that in the short term, the Russian army is stuck. It will take weeks (and more probably months) for them to repair and replace lost personnel and equipment. They probably will never be back to the same levels of readiness and proficiency that they were at the end of February.

In the meantime the Ukrainians have at least a few weeks where they have the initiative and the Russians can't do very much in response. April also typically has poor, rainy weather which will make off-road operations difficult to impossible for the Russians. But the Ukrainians seem to have figured out how to use ATVs. Since the Ukrainians have been receiving loitering munitions (like the switchblade drone) and decent night vision gear in some quantity, they seem to have the tools to rip the snot out of Russian forces who are blind at night and limited in mobility to main roads.

Given that there is apparently political time pressure on the Russians to announce some sort of victory before May 9th, there is a good chance the Russians will be forced to attack before they are ready. Which is even better for the Ukrainians.
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Re: Ukraine

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I doubt anyone is positing that the war will continue at the rate and breadth that is happening now. Instead, there seems to be an exhaustion setting in; not just exhaustion of the fighters but of the equipment and weapons as well. Will there be a lowered level of action arrive and will that be sustained, with minimal fits, starts & stops for an extended period? That is what seems to be the incoming prediction...

Using AI is getting more and more interesting. https://www.wired.com/story/russia-ukra ... tm_term=P4
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Re: Ukraine

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I'm kind of doubtful this can be a very long war. There is a sustainability issue that both sides are suffering from, but it is hitting Russia much harder.

The Russians have launched 1000-odd guided missiles at Ukraine in the first five weeks of the war. There is no way that is a sustainable rate and they will likely have to greatly reduce their use of such weapons in the coming weeks. That same limitation applies to all ammunition, from tank rounds to artillery shells and rockets to anti-tank weapons. They are consuming things at far higher rates than they can ever hope to manufacture -- and this has been true of all modern wars since the 1970s.

The Ukrainians and their NATO allies are in a similar boat. I guarantee you the Ukrainians are using up Javelins and NLAWs far faster than they can be produced. And we don't even make Stinger missiles anymore. But this problem isn't going to hit Ukraine as mercilessly as it is going to hit Russia.

Yes, both Chechnya and Syria went on far longer than Ukraine has, but both were far smaller and more limited wars both on a geographic scale and on how many personnel were committed to the fight. Interestingly, there is a theory that the Russians used up nearly all of their precision guided munitions in Syria and that's why they have had so little to use in Ukraine.

Based on what I've seen so far, I'm kind of doubtful the Russians can put together effective forces to seal off the Donbass region. They are at best going to be reconstituting already exhausted forces as they have no more fresh troops to commit. And the same logistical problems that bit them earlier in the war have only gotten worse. So it is hard to see how they can do much better this time. Perhaps I am missing something.

I'm guessing this war will break down into mutual exhaustion on both sides. But again it will hit the Russians harder, as their poor morale and supply problems leave them starting from a much weaker position.
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Re: Ukraine

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Russia is entering a serious second prong of their invasion and that is maintaining the support of the Russian people themselves. Current polling inside Russia has shown Putin has gotten an uptick in popularity, but then again the caveat is that this is a Russian govt polling result.

But with troops heading home in body bags, with radiation sickness affecting the many troops who were at Chernobyl and now hospitalized, with the 400,000 people stolen from Ukraine and sent to camps in Russia, to the Annonymous hackers breaking through on official websites, groups like the Russian Mothers will begin to breakthrough the curtain of disinformation that Putin has drawn tightly over the populous.

The US is starting to reframe the talking points to accept that this will likely be a protracted war reaching months if not years in duration. All that said, Putin is going to have a tough time holding onto the hearts and minds of the Russian people the longer this disaster plays out. The oligarchs will become restless, the people will become even more impoverished, the global ostracism will grow. Putin may think he can reach out to his blossoming romance with China and India but as the sanctions cut deeper and deeper what does Russia really have left to offer these partnerships? The UN is grumbling this morning, particularly after listening to Zelensky. There's a Bill in the Senate to cut deeper into Russia and add China and India into the mix.

Zelensky reminded the UN that the first Article of the Charter was to unite to assure peace. Then he reminded them that sometimes peace needs military protections.
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Re: Ukraine

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Focus of the war is switching to the East now.

The Russians appear to be ponderously preparing for a small offensive where they will drive south from Kharkiv and Izyum and attempt to cut off Ukrainian forces in the Donbass region. The question is whether the Ukrainians will be able to stop them, and exactly how they will accomplish that.

A quick look at Google maps shows that again, there aren't many roads in that region and that there are enough heavily forested areas that it should be very feasible for the Ukrainians to cut those roads and make them for all practical purposes impassable. A smart move would be to let the vanguard of the Russian forces move through and cut the roads behind them, leaving them without supplies or reinforcement.

The forces withdrawn from around Kiev are likely out of the fight for months.
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Re: Ukraine

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When we start talking about "intelligence failures" with respect to the Russian invasion of Ukraine we need to be kind of careful.

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of things got done right, and intelligence was quite good on Russian intentions and to a lesser extent on their plans.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it is easy to look at satellite pictures and count tanks and trucks and planes. Those things are hard numbers and are hard to argue with. Things like the training and morale of soldiers is much more subjective. And things like using cheap Chinese tires for the trucks is even harder to evaluate. So even if you had all of that information in front of you, you could reasonably argue that the Russians still had a lot of tanks.

The logistical limitations of the Russians (and the old Soviet Union before them) have been well-understood for a long time. What I think caught people by surprise was that we'd reasonably expect the Russians to understand their own limitations and know how to work around them. But that certainly did not happen.
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Re: Ukraine

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Re: Ukraine

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Russia’s Military Was Great Until It Wasn’t
Opinion by Phillips Payson O’Brien - 2h ago

Let me tell you a story about a military that was supposedly one of the best in the world. This military had some of the best equipment: the heaviest and most modern tanks, next-generation aircraft, and advanced naval vessels. It had invested in modernization, and made what were considered some of Europe’s most sophisticated plans for conflict. Moreover, it had planned and trained specifically for a war it was about to fight, a war it seemed extremely well prepared for and that many, perhaps most, people believed it would win.

All of these descriptions could apply to the Russian army that invaded Ukraine last month. But I’m talking about the French army of the 1930s. That French force was considered one of the finest on the planet. Winston Churchill believed that it represented the world’s best hope for keeping Adolf Hitler’s Nazi Germany at bay. As he said famously in 1933, and repeated a number of times afterward, “Thank God for the French army.”

Of course, when this French army was actually tested in battle, it was found wanting. Germany conquered France in less than two months in 1940. All of the French military’s supposed excellence in equipment and doctrine was useless. A range of problems, including poor logistics, terrible communications, and low morale, beset an army in which soldiers and junior officers complained of inflexible, top-down leadership. In 1940, the French had the “best” tank, the Char B-1. With its 75-mm gun, the Char B-1 was better armed than any German tank, and it outclassed the Germans in terms of armor protection as well. But when the Battle of France started, the Char B-1 exhibited a number of major handicaps, such as a gas-guzzling engine and mechanical unreliability.

Having good equipment and good doctrine reveals little about how an army will perform in a war. To predict that, you must analyze not only its equipment and doctrine but also its ability to undertake complex operations, its unglamorous but crucial logistical needs and structure, and the commitment of its soldiers to fight and die in the specific war being waged. Most important, you have to think about how it will perform when a competent enemy fires back. As Mike Tyson so eloquently put it, “Everyone has a plan until they are punched in the mouth.”

What we are seeing today in Ukraine is the result of a purportedly great military being punched in the mouth. The resilience of Ukrainian resistance is embarrassing for a Western think-tank and military community that had confidently predicted that the Russians would conquer Ukraine in a matter of days. For years, Western “experts” prattled on about the Russian military’s expensive, high-tech “modernization.” The Russians, we were told, had the better tanks and aircraft, including cutting-edge SU-34 fighter bombers and T-90 tanks, with some of the finest technical specifications in the world. The Russians had also ostensibly reorganized their army into a more professional, mostly voluntary force. They had rethought their offensive doctrine and created battalion tactical groups, flexible, heavily armored formations that were meant to be key to overwhelming the Ukrainians. Basically, many people had relied on the glamour of war, a sort of war pornography, to predict the outcome of Russia’s invasion of its neighbor.

Those predictions, based on alluring but fundamentally flawed criteria, have now proved false. Western analysts took basic metrics (such as numbers and types of tanks and aircraft), imagined those measured forces executing Russian military doctrine, then concluded that the Ukrainians had no chance. But counting tanks and planes and rhapsodizing over their technical specifications is not a useful way to analyze modern militaries. As The Atlantic’s Eliot Cohen has argued, the systems that the West used to evaluate the Russian military have failed nearly as comprehensively as that military has.

Though analysts and historians will spend years arguing about exactly why prewar assessments of the Russian military proved so flawed, two reasons are immediately apparent. First, Western analysts misunderstood the Russian military’s ability to undertake the most complex operations and the robustness of its logistical capabilities. And second, prognosticators paid too little attention to the basic motivations and morale of the soldiers who would be asked to use the Russian military’s allegedly excellent doctrine and equipment.

Russia’s problems executing complex operations became obvious almost immediately after its army crossed the border into Ukraine. For instance, many observers believed that the large, advanced Russian air force would quickly gain air dominance over Ukraine, providing the Russian land forces with support while severely limiting the Ukrainians’ movement. Instead, the Ukrainians have put in place a far more sophisticated than expected air-defense system that stymied Russian air efforts from the start. By challenging the Russians in the air, the Ukrainians have shown that Russia’s army cannot efficiently conduct the complex air operations needed to seize air supremacy from a much smaller enemy. Russia’s logistical system has been, if anything, even worse. Russian trucks are poorly maintained, poorly led, and too few in number. Once the Russian forces advanced, they found that bringing up the supplies needed to keep them moving forward became more and more difficult. Many advances, most famously the 40-mile column of vehicles stretching down to Kyiv from Belarus, simply stopped.

At the same time, the supposedly professional volunteer Russian soldiers were confused as to what they were doing, totally unprepared to meet stiff Ukrainian resistance, and, from photo evidence, surprisingly willing to abandon even the most advanced Russian equipment almost untouched. As the war has gone on, and Russian casualties have mounted, Russian soldiers have fallen victim to frostbite, refused to follow orders, and, in at least one episode, tried to kill their superior officers.

More of the Western experts who study Russia’s armed forces could and should have anticipated these problems. The Russian military has not been asked to undertake complex technological or logistical operations for at least three decades. Its more recent military actions, such as the bombing of Syria, were quite straightforward operations, in which aircraft could be used to terrorize an enemy that could not efficiently fire back.

To truly understand a military’s effectiveness, analysts must investigate not only how it looks on a spreadsheet but also how it may function in the chaos and pressure of a battlefield. War is an extremely difficult and complex business. Western strategists cannot go back in time and alter their earlier assessments. Any system with a widespread consensus that an excellent and modernized Russian military would conquer Ukraine in a matter of days is a system in crisis. We can, and must, try to do better next time. If world leaders have a better understanding of the potential difficulties of any war in East Asia, for example, perhaps they will realize how hard the outcome of such a confrontation is to predict. If the Chinese tried an amphibious landing on Taiwan, for instance, they would be undertaking maybe the most complex wartime operation, and one that their military has never attempted before. I can’t tell you what would happen, but I know it would not go according to plan. War never does.
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Re: Ukraine

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The reason Rushka forces are withdrawing from the area of Kiev is because they are in danger of being cut off. If they are cut off they will either be forced to surrender or be crushed and the survivors will surrender.
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Re: Ukraine

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Not surprisingly, the untold story of the special forces group and drone operators that were able to stop the 40 mile long convoy. Yet now they're not being funded so have had to start crowd sourcing.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... -Jy4Z6JJsE
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Re: Ukraine

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The thing that gets me right now, is that if the morale, losses, and logistics problems being reported for the Russians are correct, we should see a lot of Russian units disintegrating and possibly surrendering en masse, or at least skedaddling and heading for the border any which way they can.

I'm also starting to conclude that the risk of Russia using biological, chemical, or nuclear weapons is zero.
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Re: Ukraine

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Ukrainian firefighters can't access the scene. Chernobyl wildfires threaten the site

https://thebulletin.org/2022/03/wildfir ... s_03232022
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Re: Ukraine

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A lot of figures have been thrown around with respect to estimated Russian casualties. To be honest I can scarcely believe them.

It is also interesting that figures for estimated Ukrainian casualties aren't as easy to come by.

The best (or probably it is more accurate to say "least poor") figures are from third parties and put Russian KIA at around 10_000 at the time of this post. That is still an enormous and really insane number.

For some comparisons:

At Iwo Jima, over five weeks in February and March of 1945, the US lost around 7_000 killed, mostly Marines.

In the Yom Kippur war, over not quite three weeks in October of 1973, all sides had around 11_000 killed (note that is the very low end of the estimates).

At the same time, some sources (most notably the Wall Street Journal) are reporting that the Ukrainians have more tanks in operation than they did at the start of the war, due to the number of captured Russian tanks.
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Re: Ukraine

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These videos (from an Australian video gamer, of all things) do a good job of boiling down and making sense of what we are seeing in Ukraine, and also giving some good ideas on what we should be learning from this war:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJkmcNjh_bg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lem3enNkbV0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_t2VisYnY
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Re: Ukraine

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Watch what happens in the next week or so. If/when the Ukrainians retake Ivankiv things will change dramatically.
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Re: Ukraine

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Fun CH »

Estimates of 15,000 Russian soldiers killed as Ukrainian forces push back 30 miles of Russian gains near Kyiv.

In other news there is no evidence that China is supplying weapons to Russia.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Rideback »

In depth article on the use of Cryptocurrencies by both Ukraine and Russia. Turns out the Russians are pretty much SOL. And China is just not that interested in allowing crypto to be used in state-to-state transactions...as in military aid.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/cryptocur ... ine-crisis
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Re: Ukraine

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Last edited by Rideback on Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ukraine

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Glad you are back to using your big boy words!
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Re: Ukraine

Post by dorankj »

Let’s go Brandon!
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