extended anti mask and anti vax protest in the valley

[Fun CH]

chris,
there are no more boards.
you are trolling this one so hard that no discussion is possible.

it's ok,
but....

Alf sorry but to me the quote below is an important point that is relevant to people believing what they read on the internet is true. The reality is that its mostly BS on forums such as this or other misinformation sites.

"I just don't believe anyone on the internet unless supporting documents or facts are provided, especially someone with an agenda".

As David says;

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

You are free to interpret my posts anyway you want to, but I'm always going to push back hard on relative new comers harassing the locals (members of my community).

Two recent examples are the South Creek Trail and members of the community that don't wish to be vaccinated. I'm a believer in bodily autonomy, as outlined in the world Health organization's guidelines.

How people choose what medical decisions or treatments that they think are best for them are none of your or my damn business.

The science behind shaming and blaming is that behavior is not persuasive if your goal is for people to become vaccinated.

I see that behavior of shaming and blaming ordinary citizens of this community as part of the problem not the solution to this pandamic.

Respect and empathy seem to work better.

[Fun CH]

If a big burley man were to rip off my mask or touch me, I would not be escalating a situation. He would be the one who would be the person in the wrong. You do know that a person half the size of a big burley man, can indeed incapacitate said big burley man with the right self defense moves?
You can't assume a woman, small or whatever size, would get their arse kicked by the bigger person. Ok, you would nobly turn the other cheek because you probably would get your arse kicked.

there you go assuming everything I say is about you. I was talking about what I would do in that situation not what you should do.

I would not throw punches at someone who pulled my mask off and yes that would be escalating a situation if I did.

I trained in the martial arts (Taekwondo) when I was a teenager. You can never predict the outcome of a fight.We were taught to walk (Or run) away if at all possible.

If you think someone pulling off your mask constitutes bodily harm then go for it and punch away. See where that gets you.

Keep in mind that your internet attitude, along with quite a few other people, lost the use of the South Creek Trail. That's what disrespecting people and aggressively escalating a situation does. You don't always win, especially if you are in the wrong.

As far as David is concerned, he has made two claims that fit his political narrative perfectly. One his mask was pulled off which he considers an assault. But he didnt file a police report which the police are required to take if he insists they do so.

The other one was an email that didn't quite threaten him but he decided he didn't want to post for a while. And here he is again making those kinds of claims again.

As he's fond of saying extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Maybe those things happened to him maybe they didn't.

Where's the proof?

I just don't believe anyone on the internet unless supporting documents or facts are provided, especially someone with an agenda

[mister_coffee]

Thank you Ray, that is very good advice.

[pasayten]

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Cheers,

pasayten

[PAL]

If a big burley man were to rip off my mask or touch me, I would not be escalating a situation. He would be the one who would be the person in the wrong. You do know that a person half the size of a big burley man, can indeed incapacitate said big burley man with the right self defense moves?
You can't assume a woman, small or whatever size, would get their arse kicked by the bigger person. Ok, you would nobly turn the other cheek because you probably would get your arse kicked.
Yes, I guess David is lying then, in that the police were probably not called, when in fact he did say he talked to the police. Sounds like you are calling him a liar and you are rather hostile in your replies to him.
Chris, I am done with you. You have to always try to be right. In all your posts. The BC posts, etc. You never will even think you are wrong or even say you are sorry. In your replies to David in his post about having his mask snatched off his face, you did not say you were sorry that happened to him.
You hold what he said in the past, in an emotional moments against him.
Now you will say I am attacking you and to...please stop. Wah. I'm not the only person you have turned off on this BB.
Pearl

[Fun CH]

Chris, David was assaulted and nothing was done.

now we know nothing was done because no police report was filed or police probably not even called.

Sure it's one thing to have nice big burley guys holding the door for you at Hanks, but what if one of those guys touched you or coughed on you on purpose? You would be singing a different tune.

same song. Why would anyone throw punches or escalate a situation where they would get their arse kicked by a big burly man?

Doesn't make sense Pearl.

[Fun CH]

For the record, I didn't spend any time interacting with the people who pulled my mask off or even do anything but try to enter and exit a building while going about my lawful business. It is insulting to imply without any additional knowledge that I somehow provoked an assault. And it is deranged and sick to think that saying mean things to someone justifies an assault.

what, you feel insulted because facts were requested?

Given your track record here for extreme bias and the violent and derogatory rhetoric that you use directed towards people who haven't been vaccinated, I have no reason to believe your story is true.

A police report to backup your allegation would be the required proof.

Please don't be insulted or offended because I don't find you to be credible. That's just my opinion after reading your posts.

[mister_coffee]

For the record, I didn't spend any time interacting with the people who pulled my mask off or even do anything but try to enter and exit a building while going about my lawful business. It is insulting to imply without any additional knowledge that I somehow provoked an assault. And it is deranged and sick to think that saying mean things to someone justifies an assault.

When I reported this to police they were not interested in taking a police report and didn't consider my situation a priority. The officer who called me back was sympathetic and let me know that I wasn't the only person complaining but they were unwilling to take any action at all. In general for cases of simple assault like this they are rarely prosecuted unless directly witnessed by a law enforcement officer.

I have been in contact with people in Texas, Florida, and North Carolina who have been threatened with termination of employment if they get vaccinated. That sounds like blaming and shaming to me.

[Fun CH]

Chris, David was assaulted and nothing was done. It might be hard to "get over it". Sure it's one thing to have nice big burley guys holding the door for you at Hanks, but what if one of those guys touched you or coughed on you on purpose? You would be singing a different tune.
Assaults like David's are less likely here.
If it happened to me those burley guys would be singing the high notes.
Pearl

if the police didn't act on an assault complaint then perhaps what happened to David was not considered Criminal assault.

And since we don't have a police report to read we don't have the facts of the other side of the story.

Did David provoke the Mask removal the way he acts here towards the unvaccinated and maskless?

Is there a police report? because I'm pretty sure the police are required to take an alleged assault complaint report.

Is David pressing charges?

[PAL]

Chris, David was assaulted and nothing was done. It might be hard to "get over it". Sure it's one thing to have nice big burley guys holding the door for you at Hanks, but what if one of those guys touched you or coughed on you on purpose? You would be singing a different tune.
Assaults like David's are less likely here.
If it happened to me those burley guys would be singing the high notes.
Pearl

[Fun CH]

It is exhausting, demoralizing, and at its heart abusive to expect people to have compassion, patience, and grace for people who give none of those qualities to others.

so the teachings of Buddha, Allah, Jesus, Martin Luther King Jr.,
Mahatma Gandhi etc, don't work for you? I get it man. And yet those 5 individual people helped change the world towards grace.

Embrace the change, offer help where you can and try to understand new concepts.

Concepts like bodily autonomy.

When that ultimate human right is recognized, no longer will I or anyone else have to experience the terror of knowing their government can, will and has, snatched people up and use me as cannon fodder to kill other human beings.

Or round others up and place them in concentration camps and all the other Horrors inflicted by what you call reasonable and civilized people.

[Fun CH]

To repeat myself, you are taking the extremes actionsby a small but vocal minority which dominates the news, (cause that's what they do) and trying to make it seem like that's the norm.

Its like saying that pink lady in central park who filed a false police report on a person with better skintone means all people are racist.

I've had big burly maskless men at Hanks hold the door open for me on more then one occasion while I'm wearing a mask.

I know it doesn't fit with your narrative, but that's the norm here.

Not your less then 1% of the population who are doing the crime thing because of the political posturing.

I know you want to round 'em up a inject them with a dull needle (your words) but that violent act that you suggest ain't going to happen.

Get over it.

I just hope that all people on the left aren't judged because of the crazy things a few people on the left say.

[mister_coffee]

Chris, you are just being silly.

There is no way that saying mean things about people, or even advocating for extreme measures in a public forum, can be made morally equivalent to assaulting people or threatening people with violence. Any civilized and decent person can see the difference.

To again repeat myself, coughing on someone or forcibly removing a mask is assault. That is a crime. Posting mean things on a bulletin board might mean I am a jerk but it is not a criminal act. Trying to make those things equivalent morally puts you on the side of the violent criminal terrorists (and it is terrorism) who are terrorizing our communities.

They are certainly terrorizing me. While in Seattle and patronizing a local business I encountered the kook anti-masker protests. Individuals forcibly removed my mask both coming in and going out (I had a spare in my pocket). Complaints to law enforcement about being assaulted went nowhere.

It is exhausting, demoralizing, and at its heart abusive to expect people to have compassion, patience, and grace for people who give none of those qualities to others.

[mister_coffee]

[PAL]

So is there blaming and shaming of the masked and vaxxed? I never try to convince people to get vaccinated, hence I don't shame them. I don't think it's blaming or shaming to point out the number of Covid cases, if they are vaxxed or unvaxxed. How many are in the hospital vaxxed or unvaxxed. Hell our county health website does that. Maybe they are blaming and shaming.
Ah, well confusion does reign.

[Fun CH]

Quote
"Anything can be called blame and shame. "

not really. Please Google and read a few articles.

'The psychology of blaming and shaming the unvaccinated'

The consensus is that blaming and shaming doesn't work. If the goal is to convince people to become vaccinated, don't blame or shame them. Reach out with empathy, compassion and share your story. Treat all people as your equal, which of course they are.

If the goal is to try to convince yourself that you hold the moral high ground and are a person of superior intelligence and good judgment then sure blame and shame will work for your goals.

( Pearl this is not directed specifically at you by the way.)

To answer your question. I lean left of center, so not above it all.

And I don't know if this helps but my initial Post was a response to the title of this thread and not what David posted. Hence the confusion me thinks.

[Fun CH]

"Blame and shame?"

Well, I for one think is foul to deliberately cough on people, covid or not.

Reasonable and civilized people do not offer violence when an employee informs you of store policy.

It is assault if you physically remove someone else's mask because you object to it.

You seem to be responding to a minority. But that goes both ways.

So reasonable and civilized people think it's okay to blame and shame people for not getting vaccinated?

So Reasonable and civilized people do think its OK to advocate for rounding people up and subjecting them to medical treatment against their will?

All of these things are happening.

Ever wonder if the divisive rhetoric on both sides is contributing to all this harm?

Ask yourself, am I part of the problem or the solution?

[PAL]

I'm assuming that most masked people are not doing the assaulting? Although they might yell at people for not masking. But yelling is not physical.
Are these things happening in the Valley?
There is no need for someone to come up to me and remove my mask. And I really don't yell at people to wear a mask. I just avoid them.
What a devolution.

[mister_coffee]

"Blame and shame?"

Well, I for one think is foul to deliberately cough on people, covid or not.

Reasonable and civilized people do not offer violence when an employee informs you of store policy.

It is assault if you physically remove someone else's mask because you object to it.

All of these things are happening.

[PAL]

Anything can be called blame and shame. We are after the facts. What is driving the virus in Okanogan County and where is it coming from? In the early days, many people wanted to know, in case they have been exposed. Right now, La Fonda Lopez is closed due to them posting on FB, saying a family member, who works there was tested positive for Covid. I took a chance and ate with a small group, vaccinated and masked when we went in, on the 22nd. This does say to me, that take out is much safer and the way to go. But they had the strength to shut down their business and they were not afraid to say why. They are doing a service to the community by closing. There is no shame or blame here, just the facts.
L and I and the gov't set policy, but there is no enforcement. It is up to us to mask and yes, make note if a business is not following the mandate and either avoid it, or let L and I know.
And David, it's interesting, as I am working at the Winthrop Gallery, that all people coming in are masking, because we require it and they are not locals. Many visitors I observe are walking down the street masked.
Ok, Chris, yes we are observing. Hard not to. Judging? Perhaps, but if people in a store are not masked, I go down a different aisle. So we have to be observing, for our feeling of well being, if that's what makes us feel better about exposure.
Left wing, right wing, rhetoric. Where do you fall. Above it all?
I'm guess I'm in an ornery mood. Again, we've gone round before, it's how you come across. And how I come across. I am just speaking from my heart. Again, all David was asking is where it is coming from? I don't see the harm in that.

[Fun CH]

In response to Chris before Alf. Ok, the post is about anti mask and anti vax, as I am reading in the heading. Asking a question like that, what's the problem? The case counts are being driven by those that don't vax and mask. Are you the thread police? It might be nice to know which business in Twisp has 7 employees that tested positive for Covid.

Yea that's what I thought, please correct me but is this just another blame and shame thread directed towards Ordinary People and driven by left wing political rhetoric?

My original comment stands and it appears relevant to whatever confusion that is this thread.

What are you folks, the community vaccine and mask police? We hire Government employees to handle these matters such as WS L&I and State and Federal agencies to promote and set vaccine policy.

Perhaps consider addressing your concerns there?

Alf, don't waste your replies on me, I don't read them any longer. I only read the thread title.

Folks IMO we need to get past this BS and offer empathy for those that have caught this disease and had a bad result and express compassion for the families. How sad this must be for them.

[mister_coffee]

Back on topic, I'm just saying based on my observations that all of the seriously in-your-face anti-maskers I've observed at Thriftway and at the Mazama Store have not been locals.

[mister_coffee]

...
are you getting the statistics?
the vax rate for washington is 75%
most of the vaccines were thought to be 95% effective.
so, why are 20% of icu clients fully vaxed?
...

You're measuring two different things.

If a majority of people are fully vaccinated, and they are, it isn't surprising that 20% of ICU patients are fully vaccinated.

What you want to look at is the ICU rates in the two populations.

If 60% of the population is fully vaxxed and has 20% of the ICU patients, that implies that the unvaccinated 40% of the population has 80% of the ICU patients. That means that unvacinnated people are over six times as likely to end up in the ICU as vaccinated, which would imply an effectiveness of the vaccines of around 86% -- which is in the ballpark and better than you'd expect when just putting together numbers like this.

[PAL]

In response to Chris before Alf. Ok, the post is about anti mask and anti vax, as I am reading in the heading. Asking a question like that, what's the problem? The case counts are being driven by those that don't vax and mask. Are you the thread police? It might be nice to know which business in Twisp has 7 employees that tested positive for Covid. But of course, we are supposed to act as if we all have it. The entire meat dept. of Hanks did a few months ago and no one batted an eyelash. So it probably really doesn't matter.
Never mind that I gave you where to find out more from our county commissioner meetings. Obviously that doesn't matter and I supposed I should have created a new post, to answer David's question.
Back to what it's about. Alf posted that people were not masking in Thriftway.
Then sort of off subject, he said to dorak(aka Ken Doran) he was a representative of classic conservatives. Look up what Adam Kinzinger is saying. Now there is a classic conservative with class.
As I was writing this Alf submitted when I did, hence I got bumped. O wah.

[Fun CH]

David wants to know what? Wait, what's this thread about?