Important data (Covid)

[dorankj]

And with a 99. 9xxx survival rate for under 65, not obese and no other co-morbitities it basically won’t effect the vast majority AND they will have the superior natural immunity for the next variant and the next one. Just like the flu, just like colds etc. Maybe you’re the danger to us all selling doom, death and fear and being wrong so often!

[Fun CH]

David, The CDC reports that break through cases with those who have had Covid 19 are "very rare". I'm guessing that the CDC has looked at the data to reach this conclusion.

That same statement "very rare" is not being used to describe break through cases among the vaccinated. That seems to point to better protection after having acquired natural immunity, but hey I'm not an expert virologist and neither are you.

The question is but for how long does the immunity last for both the vaccine and natural immunity.

It may not fit your desire for an authoritarian system, but in a free society people have a right to control what medical care they receive and what new technology drugs that they want to be injected with.

Curious why you can't respect that right?

My guess is showing respect for people would yield better results for what ever the goal is.

Or put another way, you can catch more flys with honey than vinegar.

[dorankj]

You're such a easy read Alf, you run around like a carnival barker throwing your opinion (with little facts) stirring up discontent and when the enviable push back comes you fall down clutching your knee like a soccer player crying victim!

It's still surprising (but becoming common) that those who purport to be open minded and interested in other's opinions (posting on discussion boards) when faced with actual opinions contrary to their own are the most intolerant, facist Marxists ever!

[dorankj]

Tell you what Alf, since I'm part of the 'authorities ' you have so much trust in, next time you call 911 (that's me) no wait, we are just going to show up and inject you with whatever WE decide is best for you (you know science/data) and we'll take you wherever WE decide and you really get no sayso because WE know what's best and have the authority. Is that the world you all want?!

[mister_coffee]

I think we need to be really careful about making any inferences about "naturally acquired" immunity versus immunity acquired from vaccinations. There have been literally hundreds of papers and preprints out there on this topic and the numbers are all over the place.

It would be foolish to cherry pick one or two papers whose answers fit what you want. It would be almost as foolish to assume that the average of all of the papers tells you anything.

In reading half a dozen of those papers, it is striking that all of them suffer from population problems. In particular, it isn't clear that the sample they worked with was randomly selected, or even how exactly it was selected. It also isn't at all clear if that sample was representative enough to tell you anything about anything but the sample itself. In the end they are often comparing tiny subsets of those less-than-random samples and extrapolating an answer from them.

So it would be unwise to lean on any studies in that area too hard until we have a better understanding of what is going on.

My opinion is that a bunch of confounding factors are driving this. It likely very much depends on when you got infected or when you got vaccinated. Similarly, it probably matters a lot what you got infected with and what you got vaccinated with (very recent data makes it appear that Moderna is quite a bit better than other vaccines). It probably also matters what variant you get infected with after infection or vaccination. Some of those factors you can control (mostly around vaccination) but others you can't control at all. So again until things become less unclear you can't make statements like "natural infection is 27x more effective than vaccination" and expect them to have any relevance. I certainly wouldn't bet my health and well-being on them.

[dorankj]

Why don’t you try a Google search jerk!

[dorankj]

We really don’t know until we’ve had the time to do the science and discern the data. I believe natural immunity was found to be 27x more effective than vax immunity. I would prefer that option as I’m relatively young, healthy and have many co-workers do very well. Losing my job after providing my best effort when all was unknown seems particularly unfair especially when we’re only asking to uphold our Federal Civil Rights.

[PAL]

Do they know how good or long lasting the natural immunity is? And natural immunity from which variant? Maybe it has changed with medical advancements, but I read(and this could be outdated) that the antibody test is not what it should be. That is, it can be inaccurate. Of course, many tests are, but then retest.
And now I can't remember, if not vaccinated were the employees supposed to get tested twice a week?
Yes, supply chain shortages are happening now. Longshoremen ill, can't work. Well, what kind of "stuff" do I need anyway? It's mostly food and some barter goods.
Interesting article. It says they are saying the religious exemption violates privacy, but if that's what it takes to avoid the vaccine, then just do it. Just my opinion.
Pearl

[Fun CH]

With a complete lack of direction from the governor’s office, no city really knows what to do so somehow EEOC/title VII civil rights are being run over with a truck. Somehow the PPE we’ve been required to wear for every patient and at the station (and assured prevented all exposures) is no longer safe and acceptable going forward. How is that reasonable to fire many front line workers called heroes for charging into the unknown with little to no protection last year?

read up on this issue (link below). Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

why no testing option or vaccine exemptions for people who have natural immunity from having had Covid 19?

https://www.opb.org/article/2021/09/13/ ... e-mandate/

[PAL]

So why didn't they require vaccinations from the get go? What kind of PPE is required now? Maybe they changed because the Delta is supposed to be so much more contagious?
Also, to rethink this, as you say, Ken, Covid is not going away, but the reason for the jab is to keep people from serious illness and out of the hospital. The shot doesn't eliminate the virus.
On the stats for Republicans being less likely to get vaxxed and masked, it is indeed the "red" states that are not as highly vaxxed or will mask.
Yes, it is an unfortunate divisiveness in our country, but the red state, blue state definitely is divisive and was here before Covid. Covid highlighted it. It's a divisive culture as long as humans have different opinions and voices. And that will always be the case, but it doesn't have to be full of hate.
Pearl

[dorankj]

With a complete lack of direction from the governor’s office, no city really knows what to do so somehow EEOC/title VII civil rights are being run over with a truck. Somehow the PPE we’ve been required to wear for every patient and at the station (and assured prevented all exposures) is no longer safe and acceptable going forward. How is that reasonable to fire many front line workers called heroes for charging into the unknown with little to no protection last year?

[Fun CH]

Well being fired from this job (with several of my brothers) is a bit of a problem!

Sorry to here that. I guess that you don't have the weekly testing option? Or is this a Seattle wide mandatory vaccine for city employees.

I read that medical facilities that treat Medicare and Medicaid recipients are required be vaccinated. Probably they quality as Federal contractors.

I also read that one survey showed 3.5% of Dr. and nurses refuse to be vaccinated. Seems like there should be a "conscientious objector" status that moves them to weekly testing.

If 3.5% of the country is either unvaccinated or has not acquired natural immunity by already having had Covid 19, then that percentage would fall within the range that would be acceptable to reach herd immunity.

It's thought that 94% of the people need have some immunity to the virus in order to reach that herd immunity situation. They say the percentage goalposts moved up because of the Delta variant.

I guess we'll see.

Could be one of those, "there were no weapons of mass destruction" moments.

[dorankj]

Well being fired from this job (with several of my brothers) is a bit of a problem!

[Fun CH]

Also, body autonomy is incredibly important to free people (that used to be a‘liberal’ position)

It still is. No one is being rounded up and vaccinated, including illegal immigrants (they have rights also).

That whole blame and shame thing against the unvaccinated was a left wing political ploy same as the anti mask and anti vaccine anger was a Right wing political ploy.

Gotta keep us angry and divided. Politicians depend on that. Fire us up with political hot button issues, get some of that us vs. them tribal thing happening, and wait for the donation money to start rolling in.

Term limits please. To many old dinosaurs roaming around this planet.

[dorankj]

Yes, it sounds like we are having a big run locally and vulnerable people don’t do well with this. Many, many have it young and old in this area, maybe it was our time for a surge.

[mister_coffee]

Chelan County has 19 staffed ICU beds. 11 are occupied by COVID patients and 7 by other patients. Okanogan County has no staffed ICU beds.

[dorankj]

FF (firefighter), I’ve been a professional for 24+ years near Seattle, working front lines this entire time with no work from home option.

You are told this to further the fear and division. Many hospitals have very few ICU beds so any need is difficult (maybe we demand greater capacity but that will cost more)

Not anywhere close to majority of patients are COVID, when added to ‘regular’ ICU any add will be a issue, also protocols left many at home until they got very sick (thereby requiring ICU) it’s been quite sad for me to tell people they must stay home because the ER won’t take them because that was the protocol (not my decision, I was told to do that!) Also, due to all the politics around Trump etc., therapeutics are not allowed (and EUA requires no reasonable therapeutics be available- big pharma) so many many could have been helped by better treatment in Covids early stages.

There very much are issues with the ‘vaccine’ especially in young healthy people and nurses and Dr’s on the front lines are seeing those so no way will they take it if they feel they have no risk from COVID. (Don’t confuse a pretty universal recommendation for vulnerable to get the jab) Also, body autonomy is incredibly important to free people (that used to be a‘liberal’ position)

Im on duty right now, running about 7000 calls a year (pretty normal for us) so these replies are sometimes a bit disjointed between runs.

[PAL]

So why are we told this? Nurses are interviewed saying they are exhausted. Well, it is an exhausting job for sure. So the news says that they are full and can't take anymore people. So maybe they are not crammed with Covid patients but it has been indicated that the majority of patients have Covid.
Of course, this could be an indicator that our health care system is not in the best shape it could be in. The Pandemic Response was dismantled a couple of years ago, wasn't it?
Another question is do you really think nurses and Dr. are quitting all because of the mandate, or is it burn-out? I think some of it is burnout.
I have heard they are quitting. But I don't know many people who would leave a good paying job right now. And maybe it really isn't good pay.
What are their reasons for not getting the vaccine? Once again I could look it up, but since you are on the front lines, maybe you could answer these questions better, Ken. And excuse my ignorance, what is FF?
Pearl

[dorankj]

Hospitals are not ‘crammed with COVID’ (and even if they were it’s only vulnerable people) I go to hospitals every shift taking emergency pt’s (exactly who you’re talking about) Hospitals are a business and are run at at least 80% capacity to make money, they have been short staffed for decades really and now are running off good nurses and Drs over these mandates. Additionally people put off necessary treatment and visits last year (due to fear) so there is a price (catch up) needed there. Many FF wives are nurses in local hospitals so we know first hand.

[PAL]

Biden would really like it if everyone got vaccinated. But those are the mandates that Chris listed. Very clear list.

[Fun CH]

Why has Biden mandated all Americans get the shots but not the over 1,000,000 that have crossed into our country illegally this year through our southern border that are now spread out all over the U.S.?

that's not quite true that Biden has mandated that all Americans get the vaccine.

That mandate applies to companies with over 100 employees and even they have the option for weekly testing.

Federal contractors and the military don't have that testing option and are mandated to receive the vaccine.

Federal contractors have the choice not to apply for Federal Contracts to avoid the vaccine.

The workers of any company that requires a vaccine have the option to find other employment where that is not required or requires weekly testing instead.

[frankbuck]

Why has Biden mandated all Americans get the shots but not the over 1,000,000 that have crossed into our country illegally this year through our southern border that are now spread out all over the U.S.?

[PAL]

As we've seen, this virus and all viruses mutate. So what does make this one different or more deadly?
I have a feeling about this one. You may be right Ken. It may not go away. Perhaps if we had stopped it early on, it would not have found the hosts it needs.
Chris is right the 2002 outbreak was stopped with protocols.
It is so bad right now that the hospitals are all crammed with Covid patients. If it's like the flu, as some people believe, why are the hospitals groaning? Do this many people end up hospitalized, in the ICU, and dreadfully ventilated with the flu?
These are just questions, rhetorical perhaps on my part. I know I can look this up but this is just for thought.
Pearl

[Fun CH]

There are 4 corona virus that give us the common cold that were believed to be started this same eay, way back before people understood what germs and pathogens where.

So you may be right Ken.

However the 2002 SAR-Cov1 virus outbreak was stopped by the same public health protocols that we were asked to do at the beginning of this pandemic. We didn't do it.

[dorankj]

That’s exactly the point,thinking that we can eliminate this if only everyone complies. COVID is NOT going away, no matter who gets jabbed, no matter how many and what type of masks are worn! Vulnerable people should take the steps they feel comfortable for their own protection, masks, social distancing, therapeutics, ‘vaccine’ staying home and having supplies brought, whatever. Because this has animal vectors it will always be with us and mutate, it’s called life. Flu shots are recommended for the vulnerable they are modified every year for the variant believed to be most prevalent and people spread it through all the interactions called living in society. We live with it and move on and tragically every year people of all ages are taken from us, just like cars, just like poor personal health and well-being choices.

Accurate data is paramount to making wise decisions and that has been sorely lacking, manipulated and politicized this whole time. I know that because I’m one of the front line data collectors! I’m saying this guy has a point that I know has at least some validity because I’ve been living it.