This is how embarrassing Trump’s ‘fraud’ claims have gotten

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mister_coffee
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Re: This is how embarrassing Trump’s ‘fraud’ claims have gotten

Post by mister_coffee »

Fun CH wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:03 pm Quote: "Remember, correlation does NOT prove causation" end quote.
...
Your own link reports that Republicans were the largest group (23%) who were definitely not going to get vaccinated. And that more white people than black people say they definitely won't get the vaccine, as well as higher percentages of white people than black people.

So what we know:

1. Republicans, and groups closely associated with voting Republican (like white evangelicals) are the most likely to not get vaccinated.

2. Republicans, and groups closely associated with voting Republican, are the least likely to take public health measures like wearing a mask and social distancing seriously (multiple public opinion polls have shown this).

3. Information outlets such as Fox News, very popular with Republicans, repeatedly spew anti-vaccine, anti-mask, and generally anti-public health misinformation.

The statistics I cited are predictable and consistent with the above. You're right, the correlations by themselves would merely be suspicious. But we have an extremely visible mechanism in place and we have a pretty good measurement of public sentiment on these topics. It all fits.

A further and deeper question: is it reasonable, in the face of a torrent of misinformation, to expect people to make good decisions about their health all on their own?

Another deeper question: which is worse, denying care to people because hospital capacity is exhausted or force people to be vaccinated? You have to pick one.
:arrow: David Bonn :idea:
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Re: This is how embarrassing Trump’s ‘fraud’ claims have gotten

Post by Fun CH »

Quote: "Remember, correlation does NOT prove causation" end quote.

Yes, correlation is weak, it doesn't even imply proof. A deeper dive into the available data is required.

The bias of the person doing the statistical analysis is also a factor in proving causation, especially when it's political bias.


Good article from the center of the political spectrum.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ion-sites/

"These data do not, in themselves, show that COVID is killing Republican voters or disproportionately affect Republican families. For example, we know that because of healthcare disparities, Black Americans are more likely to die from COVID than white Americans. In Republican states, increases in COVID infections, hospitalizations, and deaths could be affecting Black residents, who overwhelmingly vote Democratic, even in Republican stronghold states. However, the sudden change in rhetoric from conservative, Republican politicians, and even among Republican leaders who were previously vaccine-skeptical or vaccine-silent, suggests that something else is happening. It suggests that Republican politicians are recognizing where the current COVID wave is hitting hardest, and they aren’t Democratic cities and counties."
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Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
dorankj
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Re: This is how embarrassing Trump’s ‘fraud’ claims have gotten

Post by dorankj »

I Didn’t realize our diseases only knew how to spread to certain political positions! The true likelihood of problems from Covid-19 are: 1-obesity 2-over 65 3-one or more co-morbidities. Now could that be rural areas with poorer populations? Remember, correlation does NOT prove causation but thanks for continuing the political divide and furthering distrust and hesitancy.
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Re: This is how embarrassing Trump’s ‘fraud’ claims have gotten

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dorankj wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:16 am Actually Alf, the largest group by percentage hesitant to get jabbed are phd’s and the African American community. The rest of your narrative is problematic too but I don’t have time now to refute all that’s wrong with your post. Have a good day, COVID won’t take out the world!
Oh please.

I guess there are a lot of African Americans and PhDs in Stevens County (33.0% fully vaccinated). While King County must not have many of either (70.8% fully vaccinated). What is driving whether people get vaccinated or not is who they voted for in the 2020 election.

The top four and bottom four counties in-state by vaccination rate, and the percentage they voted for Biden:

San Juan: 73.1% vaccinated, 74.% for Biden
King: 70.8% vaccinated, 75.4% for Biden
Jefferson: 69.4% vaccinated, 69.8% for Biden
Whatcom: 67.1% vaccinated, 60.8% for Biden
...
Pend Oreille: 33.7% vaccinated, 30.5% for Biden
Asotin: 34.8% vaccinated, 35.8% for Biden
Skamania: 35.2% vaccinated, 43.9% for Biden
Stevens: 33.0% vaccinated, 27.7% for Biden

You can see the same trend at another scale if you just go to the Okanogan County Public Health Site. 71% of liberal Winthrop has been vaccinated, while much-less liberal Okanogan has only a 39% vaccination rate. If you dig a little deeper you can see the same trends state-by-state.

That kind of correlation does not happen by accident.

Oh, and you can flip the numbers around and see the very same thing. If you look at 2021 covid cases and covid deaths they nicely correlate to whether the area was carried by Trump (or negatively correlate to if the area was carried by Biden). By some estimates you are five times more likely to die from covid if you live in an area that is strongly pro-Trump as opposed to an area that is strongly pro-Biden.

Once again, this is no accident and no spurious correlation. It is happening at too many scales and too many places and when measured too many different ways.

The numbers aren't lying. This is 100% political.

**Back to lurking**
:arrow: David Bonn :idea:
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Re: This is how embarrassing Trump’s ‘fraud’ claims have gotten

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Interesting and funny comment on facebook post of the "embarrassing claims" article...
😂😂😂😂I’m laughing at the many people who are so gullible as to believe in the big lie. You’ve been brought up as Americans, Americans incorporate a highly technical highly trusted double triple rechecked process of casting a votes. Yeah you conspiracy hungry malcontents tend to believe every angle, and every angle was accused, to prove that the election was stolen. It was stolen by me and millions of other voters. What you Trump supporters must learn to understand, it’s called losing. Trump lost and Since he lost he has created this narcissist war and everything non-Trump. His irresponsible leadership has led us to point fingers at each other. Hell even members of his own party, which is not what you guys know as the Republican Party. Trumps is busy ferreting out the remaining Republicans whom are not loyal to Trump. Didn’t see that coming did you, we’re talking about the Trumplican’s. They ARE NOT the Republicans as we once knew them. This group isn’t even pro American! I will go on to say that Trump and his followers are EVERYTHING non American. They have ripped apart the established political protocol to obtain their goal “winning” So now you Trumpsters doubt everything huh? Then go! Buy Greenland and make Trump your leader. See how far and what direction that leadership will get you. Maybe Putin will slice off a piece of his country for you. 😂😂😂😂
Note... I am a Republican... always have been... not a Trumplican...
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dorankj
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Re: This is how embarrassing Trump’s ‘fraud’ claims have gotten

Post by dorankj »

Actually Alf, the largest group by percentage hesitant to get jabbed are phd’s and the African American community. The rest of your narrative is problematic too but I don’t have time now to refute all that’s wrong with your post. Have a good day, COVID won’t take out the world!
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This is how embarrassing Trump’s ‘fraud’ claims have gotten

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Washington Post article... "This is how embarrassing Trump’s ‘fraud’ claims have gotten"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnbfcL
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