Campus Student Unrest

[just-jim]

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Since you think people lose their rights if they dont agree with you, Vern….

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People who post crap like this should lose their VA benefits AND their Federal health care and retirement benefits, too.

I mean…fair is fair, right…breaking the law is breaking the law, right?
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[PAL]

What has been done in Gaza is a terrible thing. Hamas does hide behind the citizens, I believe. However, it is past the point of Israel attempting to root them out by annihilating the Palestinians. There must be a better way?

I would much rather see the students turn their sights to our Supreme Court and the sham it has become. Of the lies Kavanaugh, Barret and Gorshiks(sp?) committed when being interviewed for the job. And the distrupters, MTG and others come to mind.
Condemn the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers.
I saw the destruction the protesters did to some of the college campus buildings. I told my husband that is not the right way to protest. But these students never saw the Nam demonstrations. They have only witnessed the BLM protesters, which, until those factions, like the Proud Boys, etc. infiltrated and caused violence, were attempting to be peaceful.
What a waste of energy to destroy property. It did gain attention. Some universities are meeting with small groups of students to see about their demands.

[mister_coffee]

Are Foreign Nationals Entitled to the Same Constitutional Rights As Citizens?

https://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/ ... ext=facpub

Also, I am all for going after terrorist organizations. Preferably with large-caliber munitions. Charity begins at home so we should start with the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and Three Percenters. I'd prefer to see those fat bastards sent to hell in very small pieces.

[Jingles]

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SO, Jingles….exercising your Constitutional rights is fine…..unless YOU disagree with their aims and they are ‘pro-Hamas’….

THEN they lose their rights?
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If you support a terrorist organization/ group IMO you are no better than the group you support and Hamas deserves TWEP.
Students / Folks here on Visas do not have Constitutional rights, until they become citizens of the US which is who the Constitution protects and provides rights to.
Additionally Hamas is calling for death to Israel and the Jews which is what the Nazi's were doing so IMO Hamas supporters are nothing but 21st century Nazis

[mister_coffee]

Thanks for the article discussing outside agitators. Yes, seeing that it is nationwide at the campuses, I agree that they are not that organized.
The link about Brown is interesting too.

I'd be careful with that "nationwide". Yes, the protests appear to be well-distributed geographically. But given that the best and most recent figures I've been seeing is that these protests are on "more than 50" campuses, and there are over four thousand colleges and universities in the country, I don't know you can generalize and say this is a huge mass phenomenon. Yet.

It is also distinctly likely that the media is massively under-reporting how many of these protests are happening, though.

Even forty or fifty such protests implies a very unlikely number of "outside agitators", in my view.

[PAL]

Thanks for the article discussing outside agitators. Yes, seeing that it is nationwide at the campuses, I agree that they are not that organized.
The link about Brown is interesting too.

[mister_coffee]

It seems that outside agitators are coming to these protests....

Usually "outside agitators" is used as an excuse by the powers that be to bash in heads.

I would buy the outside agitator argument if this was one protest at one university. But when it is happening near-simultaneously at schools across the country that would require a lot of outside agitators and a degree of organization that I bluntly do not see in these protests.

Oh, and here is an explanation about how that term has been used and abused over the years:

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/3/21275720/g ... s-movement

[just-jim]

. What does that really mean"? Do the Universities have financial ties to Israel?

It’s complicated, Pearl.

Heres a link to what one of the first Universities - Brown - to have discussions, has agreed to with students. https://www.brown.edu/news/2024-04-30/e ... -agreement

The pledge of the University to “divest Brown’s endowment from "companies that facilitate the Israeli occupation of Palestinian Territory." “, means, likely, that Brown’s endowment fund might sell off stocks in Boeing?, arms companies, logistics companies, banks, etc. It’s complicated because ‘divesting’ your endowment funds (that funds future scholarships or building maintenance, for instance) is one thing….but all Universities also have multiple funds. So, ‘divesting’ might mean the pension funds - for instance - that determine the monthly checks of 1000’s of former employees are involved. All that makes many people sit up and take notice.
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[PAL]

It seems that outside agitators are coming to these protests. One of the demands the students want is for the Universities to divest themselves of Israeli support. Not necessarily to divest themselves of jewish students, but of the government. What does that really mean"? Do the Universities have financial ties to Israel?
There was a list of demands, maybe in the link I sent about the professors being arrested.
Is it the majority of these students that are being violent? No, I don't think so. A few make it bad for the rest.
Some news sources say Pro Palistinian and some like Fox, say pro Hamas or Anti Israeli. Tuned into Fox for this panel of about 6 talking head sitting around. As an aside, I noticed their grooming, designer suits, and don't it beat all 4" spike heels. Watch out for these power women.

[just-jim]

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SO, Jingles….exercising your Constitutional rights is fine…..unless YOU disagree with their aims and they are ‘pro-Hamas’….

THEN they lose their rights?
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[mister_coffee]

By definition any effective protest is going to be at least somewhat disruptive.

Also, it is possible to be vehemently opposed to the harm being done to Palestinian non-combatants and at the same time be opposed to Hamas.

I do agree that these protests are incompetently organized and have confused and conflicting messaging. And it isn't clear what they are asking for (which goes back to the confused and conflicting messaging) or even who they are asking. I note that Joe Biden can't really order Israel to cease combat operations. And any openly coercive actions by the US Government against Israel are very unlikely to stop the violence in the short term and it isn't at all certain that they would even help very much in the longer term. We also do not have 100 percent transparency on what our government is actually doing or saying -- and that is pretty normal when it comes to diplomacy. It is also easy to criticize diplomacy when you aren't actually sitting at the table and don't know what cards you have to play and can't know what cards the other players have.

I walked away from nonviolent direct actions when I realized the organizers often didn't know or care about any kind of safety plan to ensure the safety of participants, law enforcement, and innocent bystanders. That requires actual work to be done. And if you aren't working damned hard to ensure the safety of everyone you have no control over whether the protest is nonviolent or not.

[Jingles]

Peaceful demonstrations are a form of exercising your Constitutional rights, however, when they become destructive , threatening or disruptive to others, they have crossed the line and have become criminals and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
If the protesters are non citizens here on ANY type of Visa that visa should immediately be revoked and the protestor sent to their home country on first Cargo ship leaving port where they are forced to work to earn their fare. If the protesters are US students going to any college on a student loan that loan should become due in full immediately. These protesters should be placed on terrorist / no fly list.
If ANYONE is protesting Pro Hamas they too should be placed on a terrorist / No fly list and targeted as potential terrorist in their communities

[PAL]

Here's a story. Ah, I am watching and remember the protests about the Vietnam War. Protesters were protesting Nixon and the Admin. placing bombs in the harbors at one point. We wanted our boys(mostly all boys at the time) to be brought home. So many body bags.
There was much unrest and some violence. Arrests were also made then. I made sure I was not one of them. "Stay on the sidewalk, not in the street" and you won't be arrested. Many Universities participated then too.
Then came Kent State...that was the real war.
When our soldiers came home, I saw no one deride them, although I know that happened. They did what they thought was right, but after all of it, realized, what the f were they doing over there?


https://www.greensocialthought.org/thin ... -st-louis/

I do not condone violent protests at all. Breaking windows, destroying school property, chanting death against others. As long as the students keep it peaceful, protests should be allowed. But as with any group, the energy can change quickly. Police wanted to move them off campuses and those that didn't leave, were arrested. And for Vietnam, people wanted to be arrested, to show a count of how strongly they objected.