How to talk to someone about vaccine hesitancy

[Fun CH]

Chris has his environmental activism. He is a one man anti development army. He holds back the tides of noisy choppers and snow machines. He attempts to suppress unwanted and disruptive commercial use of the outdoors.

To be clear, I'm not anti-development in the Methow Valley. Construction is a huge economic driver in this Valley.

Also to be clear, I am not a lone North Cascade Mountain advocate. There's lots of us out there.

I just post information on the internet in the interest of public transparency.

Also because I have been a witness, and reported to the FS, environmental destruction determined to be unlawful and other unresolved conflict issues that come with the ever increasing commercial use of our Wilderness quality North Cascade Mountains by North Cascades Heli-ski corperation.

[pasayten]

And alf has made 679 posts/replies which is a job in itself...

[mister_coffee]

Get a job Alfy...

In fairness to Alf, I've hired him and found him to be a good and reliable worker.

[mister_coffee]

images (24).jpeg "My Source Say No"

I love to learn new things. If you have sources that say no please share them with me so I can learn.

Thanks.

[Rideback]

Well https://crooksandliars.com/2022/01/vacc ... aEIqNwgthe Canadians in Quebec are having good luck with their new policy; proof of vaccination required to purchase alcohol and cannabis

[mister_coffee]

Personally I think we are pretty much wrecked at this point.

Hospitals will likely be continuously disrupted by periodic (though hopefully less extreme and less frequent) "waves" of covid. This will probably permanently lower the quality of health care in this country, and a lot of people (more precisely, a lot more people) will end up dying from things that were easily preventable.

Five to ten percent of the population will be more or less permanently out of the workforce due to long-term disabilities caused by this disease.

Since Republicans refuse the vaccine and refuse to take precautions in such overwhelming numbers, they will likely reduce themselves to permanent minority status. It remains to be seen if they can compensate for that error by legislatively rigging elections in their favor. Also, if we do have a civil war they will have weakened themselves a great deal, since the hard core most likely to engage in terrorism is also the most hard core about refusing safe and effective vaccines and refusing to wear masks.

[pasayten]

Great quote/post from facebook...

"Just sayin
I'm fully vaccinated…... No, I don't know "what's in it". Neither this vaccine nor the ones I had as a child. Nor do I know what's in the 11 secret herbs and spices at KFC. I also don't know exactly what's in Ibuprofen or any other painkiller - they just treat my headaches & my pains. I don't know what's in tattoo ink, botox and fillers, or every ingredient in my soap, shampoo or deodorants. I don’t know the long term effect of mobile phone use, or whether or not that restaurant I just ate at REALLY used clean foods and washed their hands.
There's a lot of things I don't know.
I do know one thing: life is short. Very short. And I, personally, still want to do things. I want to travel and hug people without fear, and find a little feeling of life "before".
Throughout my life I've been vaccinated against many diseases: Measles, mumps, rubella, polio, chickenpox, hepatitis, influenza, tetanus. We trusted the science, and never had to suffer through or transmit any of those said diseases.
I'm vaccinated. Not because I’m a sheep or to please the government. Not to make other people do it. But I don't want to:
* die from Covid-19
* clutter a hospital bed if I get sick
* not be able to hug my loved ones
* not be able to travel & enjoy events
* live my life in fear
* cause someone else's death
Can't say it any clearer. I'm vaccinated for me and I wear a mask for you.
Copied & pasted. Feel free to do the same
Thanks for this, Stephanie Hersh!"

[woodman]

Tough To Beat The House Odds
Post by Solstice » Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:59 am

This is not political but information posted for the good of the Methow Valley's community and visitors.

Latest (12/20) CDC data by vaccine status:

Unvaccinated: 451 cases per 100k
Vaccinated: 134 cases per 100k
Boosted: 48 cases per 100k

Unvaccinated: 6.1 deaths per 100k
Vaccinated: 0.5 deaths per 100k
Boosted: 0.1 deaths per 100k

Check the Okanogan County Board of Health's new website for detailed local information. Stay healthy and stay safe. Let's enjoy the holidays and this special time of year as carefully as we can. Masking and proper distancing indoors can really help too.
Jim Brennan

I've seen these figures circulating on other platforms as well. I am skeptical about the parameters that the CDC mandates to determine if someone is vaxxed or not. My understanding is that even after your first shot with Pfizer or Moderna you are not considered vaccinated, and you are still not considered vaxxed for 14 days after the second shot with Pfizer and Moderna, and for the 14 days after the J&J shot you are not considered vaxxed, but there is a lot of data that shows that people are having adverse events that are caused by the jab that would lead them to have positive test for Covid, but within those time frames by definition according to the CDC, you would not be considered to be vaxxed. 3 months after the vaccination you are considered unvaxxed again, although there is growing data that some people are getting an adverse reaction to the jab beyond 3 months following vaccination, although they are classified by the CDC as unvaxxed until they get a booster. Also, there could be other internal bias with their data collection that is not being looked at.

I think that a vaxxed person is less likely to get tested. I know that for public venues locally some establishments have required people to either be vaxxed or show a negative test within 3 days, so by nature of our current rules, generally speaking. a vaxxed person doesn't have to get tested as often to go about their business. Hospitals probably have internal bias in their collection methods as well. Wouldn't a hospital want to see if you are vaxxed or not, and if you are not vaxxed, wouldn't they be more likely to test you? More tests for unvaxxed equals more cases per 100,000. Besides a positive test does not mean you are infected. That is why I think it is the military that is talking about only testing soldiers that have symptoms. I am skeptical about deaths too. Like I said you are not considered vaxxed until 14 days after second jab, and then 3 months after the second jab, you are considered unvaxxed again according to the CDC guidelines, so I think it is quite likely that some of the deaths labeled unvaxxed may have died from the vaxx, but they are recorded as unvaxxed. I also think that the effect of the jab can cause you to test negative, but you could have a health issue related to the vaxx that leads to hospitalization, but because you would test negative you would not be part of the case count. I believe it possible that this is what happened with a journalist that locals may know who was in the hospital, but tested negative for Covid. Maybe I just have an overactive imagination, and if that is the case in this instance, then I apologize.

Also, they give out a vaccination certificate immediately after your second shot, but technically according to cdc guidelines if you went to the hospital within 14 days and you tested positive for Covid, the hospital would record that you are unvaxxed even though you have a vaccine certificate. I believe this is the case, although the vast majority don't know this. Check it out...

If a person wants to make a report to VAERS data base because they suspect an adverse event related to the vaxx, that person can claim vaxxed status if the claim is filed while technically unvaxxed in the windows of time mentioned above, so in terms of cases, you could be considered unvaxxed, but you can still file a claim for vaxx injury, and at the airport you would be treated as a vaxxed person with your vaxx passport, although you are unvaxxed according to the CDC methods of categorizing cases.

[pasayten]

Trust me when I say that the drug companies have been losing $ on pharmaceutical drugs for many years.

I believe this statement is false... All you have to do is look at their stock performances...

[woodman]

Trust me when I say that the drug companies have been losing $ on pharmaceutical drugs for many years. They are liable for injury. That's why drugs come onto the market and routinely there are law firms looking for plaintiffs for class action lawsuits. Many of the new pharmaceuticals will very likely show a terrible risk:reward profile a short time later, and then they have to pay damages, and take them off the market, but the jabs are classified as biologics, and the taxpayer pays for injury through the VAERS (vaxx adverse event recording system) court which is taxpayer funded, also it costs the drug companies about $1 per shot and Pfizer charges up to 30X. Moderna charges up to 20X. I guess they are free though, and Fauci is science according to him.

[pasayten]

Tough To Beat The House Odds
Post by Solstice » Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:59 am

This is not political but information posted for the good of the Methow Valley's community and visitors.

Latest (12/20) CDC data by vaccine status:

Unvaccinated: 451 cases per 100k
Vaccinated: 134 cases per 100k
Boosted: 48 cases per 100k

Unvaccinated: 6.1 deaths per 100k
Vaccinated: 0.5 deaths per 100k
Boosted: 0.1 deaths per 100k

Check the Okanogan County Board of Health's new website for detailed local information. Stay healthy and stay safe. Let's enjoy the holidays and this special time of year as carefully as we can. Masking and proper distancing indoors can really help too.
Jim Brennan

[pasayten]

Trump says he got Covid vaccine booster shot, tells fans not to boo him for it

Dan Mangan - 26m ago

Former President Donald Trump says he received a booster vaccine shot for Covid-19
"Oh don't!" Trump said, waving his hand as some people in an audience in Dallas at a show with former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly seemed to react negatively to him saying he got the booster.

A relatively large percentage of Republican voters have refused to get even initial doses of the coronavirus vaccines. GOP governors around are resisting vaccine and mask mandates.

Former President Donald Trump says he received a booster vaccine shot for Covid-19 — but he doesn't want to hear any criticism about it.

"Oh, don't, don't, don't!" said Trump, waving his hand dismissively, as some people in an audience in Dallas on Sunday afternoon seemed to react negatively to the Republican saying he got the booster.

His comments come as a relatively large percentage of Republicans have refused to get even initial doses of the coronavirus vaccines, and as GOP governors resist vaccine and mask mandates. The Kaiser Family Foundation found in a recent poll that as of October, 60% of unvaccinated Americans are Republicans.

Research has shown that boosters appear effective against the surging omicron variant of Covid.

Before Trump spoke Sunday, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, who was the Republican vice presidential nominee in 2008, said at a conservative event in Arizona that, "It'll be over my dead body that I get a [Covid] shot."

"I will not. I won't do it and they better not touch my kids either," Palin said.

Trump's disclosure came on the last day of a four-day tour of "The History Show" with Bill O'Reilly, the former Fox News host. O'Reilly was ousted from Fox in 2017 after allegations that he sexually harassed multiple women, who received a reported $13 million in total to settle their claims.

"Both the president and I are vaxxed, and, did you get the booster?" O'Reilly asked.

"Yes," Trump replied.

O'Reilly then said, "I got it, too."

When some in the Dallas crowd started hooting about that, Trump told them to stop. He then claimed that the negative noise only came "from a very tiny group over there," as he pointed to his left.

Trump also reportedly said during the show, "We saved tens of millions worldwide by creating the vaccine."

"It would have been like the Spanish flu without it. … We should take credit for it, and you play right into their hands" when you question the vaccine's value, he added.

After a video clip of the exchange began spreading on Twitter, the spokesman for Covid communications from the Biden administration's U.S. Department of Health and Human Services retweeted it with the cheeky message: "Be like President Trump, and get your booster shot."

More than 800,000 Americans have died from Covid-19 since the pandemic spread through the United States in March 2020.

Vaccinated people are significantly less likely to be hospitalized or die from the coronavirus than unvaccinated people are.

Trump previously heard boos during an August rally in Cullman, Alabama, after telling supporters they should get vaccinated.

"And you know what? I believe totally in your freedoms. I do. You've got to do what you have to do," Trump said. "But, I recommend: take the vaccines. I did it. It's good. Take the vaccines."

Trump previously has said he was vaccinated before leaving the White House in January.

But he was not photographed when he purportedly got the shot, unlike President Joe Biden, who has been photographed while getting both the vaccine initially in December 2020, and a booster in September.

Trump was hospitalized with Covid for several days in early October 2020, shortly after his first debate with the then-Democratic presidential nominee Biden.

Trump's White House chief of staff Mark Meadows in a new book wrote that Trump tested positive for the coronavirus three days before the Biden debate. Sources have confirmed that to NBC News, but said Trump tested negative after his initial positive test before the debate.

"The story of me having COVID prior to, or during, the first debate is Fake News," Trump said this month. "In fact, a test revealed that I did not have COVID prior to the debate."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-AARZXCq

[pasayten]

Washington team doctor: 21 of 23 COVID-positive players were healthy enough to practice
Michael David Smith - Yesterday 12:32 PM

In a sign of how mild COVID-19 can be for fully vaccinated healthy young people, Washington’s team doctor says the overwhelming majority of Football Team players who tested positive this week are healthy enough to practice.

Washington Football Team doctor chief medical officer Anthony Casolaro told reporters today that 23 players tested positive for COVID-19, but only two of them had symptoms that would have led Casolaro to hold them out of practice. The other 21 were healthy enough that they would have been allowed to practice, if not for the NFL rules requiring all players who test positive to isolate.

Now the NFL rules are changing, and asymptomatic vaccinated players will not be tested at all. That means there will be far fewer players going on the COVID-19 reserve list — not necessarily because there will be fewer COVID-positive players, but because some of those vaccinated players will get COVID-19 but feel totally fine, never get tested and never find out they ever had the virus.

There are indications that increasing numbers of COVID-positive players have the omicron variant, which researchers say appears to be more contagious but less severe. That means the virus could spread through a locker room easily, but without making many, if any, players sick. The league is shifting its protocols for that reality, and for the remainder of the regular season and postseason, some players with COVID-19 will practice and play without ever knowing they had COVID-19.

Washington team doctor: 21 of 23 COVID-positive players were healthy enough to practice originally appeared on Pro Football Talk

[pasayten]

[woodman]

J &J and Pfizer are not beyond reproach. Pfizer has an extensive criminal history. I don't feel like looking anything up right now, but I don't want to put trust in a biologic that has been indemnified from liability since the Reagan era in 1986 when the CDC was going to go out of business since their products were not working up until that point. Now the taxpayer pays for all injuries reported. Would you buy a new car without a warranty? This is a perfect business model for them, but not for the patient. I think we will see liability return to where it belongs very soon.

Probably nobody has heard of the movie that came out called 1986 THE ACT. You can check it out at 1986theact.com

https://7thchakrafilms.com/film-info/1986-the-act

[woodman]

Dr. Richard Fleming PHD is a physics professor, an MD, and a JD. I think we are all getting closer to the truth. He has helped me to moderate my views. Begins at 4:00-1:20:00. Covid revealed...

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/covid-re ... wokXT.html

[dorankj]

Interesting, the comments were best! I think the labels are dangerous, I support more classic liberalism a la Adam Smith wealth of nations and I think language is owned by the left.

[Fun CH]

Actually Alf it shows that you and so many of ‘your side’ have no understanding of or any desire to understand us ‘right wingers’.

this is a simular conclusion, based upon supporting scientific research, reached by Moral Psychologist Jonathan Haidt.


https://theindependentwhig.com/haidt-pa ... ervatives/

"Haidt: Conservatives Understand Liberals Better Than Liberals Understand Conservatives"

"The results were clear and consistent. Moderates and conservatives were most accurate in their predictions, whether they were pretending to be liberals or conservatives. Liberals were the least accurate, especially those who described themselves as “very liberal.”

Not sure the current situation with the "big lie" and public health rebellion are rooted in conservative ideals and values.

[woodman]

Dr. Robert Malone is the creator of mrna technology. He shares some information to parents before consenting to have children jabbed.

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/dr-rober ... 8hZi1.html

According to Dr. Robert Malone vaccine deception was made law back in 1984. It requires thinking and learning...

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/hhs-made ... LPxg5.html

[dorankj]

Once again, you lose an argument so you fall down clutching your knee crying victim! Your characature of firemen is just as wrong as it is of ‘right wingers’. Firefighters have zero training similar to cops and want nothing to do with police action. The old joke is: ‘what’s the difference between cops and firemen?, they BOTH want to be firemen!’

[dorankj]

Actually Alf it shows that you and so many of ‘your side’ have no understanding of or any desire to understand us ‘right wingers’. You have an invented characature of us and shockingly we’re always wrong (and you’ll justify it by saying we do it too). The analogy fails in your mind because it exactly reinforces what I’ve been pointing out for so long! Other people driving poorly or using bad tires DO pose a risk to me and my loved ones on the road but I don’t to force any behavior I want, only accept certain personal risk when I drive, trust that generally they don’t want to crash either and use safety devices and equipment that I think (and am willing to pay for) that I believe will keep me safe.

[dorankj]

Does everyone who doesn’t use winter tires crash? Does everyone who has winter tires never crash? Is everyone mandated to use winter tires with penalty of losing your whole income? Why not? You REALLY might want to think this argument through a little more!

[Mark58]

I refuse to put winter tires because:
It’s my car, my choice, my freedom.
The effectiveness of winter tires is not proven, except by studies carried out by the manufacturers (you amaze me).
My neighbor Robert had an accident after putting on his winter tires.
Some are already on their 3rd set of tires, which proves their Ineffectiveness.
We do not know what they are made of.
The tire giants scare us with winter just to enrich themselves.
In fact, the tire giants invented snow and spread it at night when you sleep.
If I have tires, the government can track me in the snow.
Educate yourself, open your eyes, stop being sheep!
This year, winter tires, I say no!

[woodman]

Come on Alf and Brad... Be nicer to each other... Clean up the thread and get it back on topic...

On the topic of learning it is my personal opinion that unlearning is needed, interestingly enough. We are still just sharing ideas... No big deal. Too cold to do much else...Peace, and Thanks Ray for being the referee. LOL

[pasayten]

Come on Alf and Brad... Be nicer to each other... Clean up the thread and get it back on topic...