Post by mr_coffee » Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:11 am
I've answered some questions in good faith, and now have a question of my own:
If you are choosing to be unvaccinated, have you asked a doctor about your choice? If you did, what did they say to you? If you didn't, why not?
David Bonn
"The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by mr_coffee » Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:40 am
It is important to keep in mind that there have been very few peer-reviewed studies about the rates of fatal complications from these new vaccines. A lot of that is because they haven't been in use very long and the peer-review pipeline is pretty jammed up, but also because there haven't been a lot of fatalities and it is very difficult at those very low fatality rates to separate any truly vaccination-related fatalities from random events. And in particular with something that happens with extreme rarity it isn't surprising to have weird random events.
The few studies that we do have had only looked at vaccinations fairly early on, when most of the people who were getting vaccinated were in two groups: healthcare providers and elderly people at high risk if they were infected with covid. One thing that was striking to me was that the vast majority (like ninety percent) of the fatalities reported were amongst elderly folks in long-term care facilities. Even there the fatality rates reported were fairly close to the fatality rates you'd expect in a population of LTCF residents who were not vaccinated.
I posted references to these papers in a previous thread that was deleted.
Long-term side effects. Well, we do not have a complete picture, but we do know a few things. The first thing is that there have been previous phase I studies on mRNA vaccines (in 2018 and I think earlier) and one of the big reasons you do phase I studies and monitor your population for a long time is to look for long-term side effects.
So far, at least, they haven't found anything.
Second, we have never in history had *any* vaccine with a well-documented side effect that didn't show up within a few months of vaccination. And remember we have developed a lot of vaccines over the years.
Third, what could the mechanism possibly be? For a long-term side effect to even be possible there are a limited set of mechanisms in our bodies that could be happening. One is that if you had a toxin that the body couldn't effectively get rid of (think of toxic heavy metals like lead or cadmium -- generally they are metals that aren't very soluble in water) and there aren't any of those in these vaccines. The other is that you have an infectious agent that finds a place to hide out and attacks you much later. Again there is no live virus in an mRNA vaccine. A third is that there is some chemical process that attacks your DNA -- and mRNA *can't* attack DNA, and there is lots of it sloshing around in your body at any given time so it seems pretty unlikely to me. Now it is just barely imaginable that *this particular mRNA* might cause different effects than other mRNA (of which there are literally trillions of different kinds sloshing around inside your cells right now) but the odds of that mRNA doing anything bad to you have to be vanishingly small.
The major technical challenge with mRNA vaccines was keeping them intact in our bodies long enough to do some good. Which again makes it seem unlikely that there could be any long-term side effects.
There is another side of this, however. We do know quite a bit about long-term effects of COVID. We know that people who had the very similar SARS and MERS viruses often had long-term cardiovascular and lung problems, some of which have persisted for more than a decade and may well be permanent. We are seeing pretty good evidence that some people do not recover completely from infection, and some of them may well be permanently damaged by the disease. What we do not know is that if the virus has found some reservoir in the body where it may launch another possibly fatal attack years later -- like we know happens with HIV and non-A, non-B hepatitis. So you need to put your thinking cap on and make a complex and important decision in the face of limited and necessarily imperfect information. For me at least it is pretty darned clear.
Finally, just recently Moderna announced Phase I clinical trials of an mRNA vaccine for HIV. That is a huge deal. And keep in mind that Moderna is running a big risk and writing some big checks getting a new vaccine like this into a clinical trial, and I have a hard time thinking they'd do it if they weren't extremely confident that mRNA vaccines are very safe. And very effective.
Even more finally, deciding whether or not to get this vaccine is a major health care decision with consequences not just for your own health but for that of your family and community. So you shouldn't be taking medical advice from people on the internet -- even if that advice is from me. Please, please, please speak to your doctor. Just pick up the phone and call them and ask them what they think. Like I said in a previous post, we have some pretty good doctors here and they seem like stand-up folks. So listen to what they have to say.
David Bonn
It is important to keep in mind that there have been very few peer-reviewed studies about the rates of fatal complications from these new vaccines. A lot of that is because they haven't been in use very long and the peer-review pipeline is pretty jammed up, but also because there haven't been a lot of fatalities and it is very difficult at those very low fatality rates to separate any truly vaccination-related fatalities from random events. And in particular with something that happens with extreme rarity it isn't surprising to have weird random events.
The few studies that we do have had only looked at vaccinations fairly early on, when most of the people who were getting vaccinated were in two groups: healthcare providers and elderly people at high risk if they were infected with covid. One thing that was striking to me was that the vast majority (like ninety percent) of the fatalities reported were amongst elderly folks in long-term care facilities. Even there the fatality rates reported were fairly close to the fatality rates you'd expect in a population of LTCF residents who were not vaccinated.
I posted references to these papers in a previous thread that was deleted.
Long-term side effects. Well, we do not have a complete picture, but we do know a few things. The first thing is that there have been previous phase I studies on mRNA vaccines (in 2018 and I think earlier) and one of the big reasons you do phase I studies and monitor your population for a long time is to look for long-term side effects.
So far, at least, they haven't found anything.
Second, we have never in history had *any* vaccine with a well-documented side effect that didn't show up within a few months of vaccination. And remember we have developed a lot of vaccines over the years.
Third, what could the mechanism possibly be? For a long-term side effect to even be possible there are a limited set of mechanisms in our bodies that could be happening. One is that if you had a toxin that the body couldn't effectively get rid of (think of toxic heavy metals like lead or cadmium -- generally they are metals that aren't very soluble in water) and there aren't any of those in these vaccines. The other is that you have an infectious agent that finds a place to hide out and attacks you much later. Again there is no live virus in an mRNA vaccine. A third is that there is some chemical process that attacks your DNA -- and mRNA *can't* attack DNA, and there is lots of it sloshing around in your body at any given time so it seems pretty unlikely to me. Now it is just barely imaginable that *this particular mRNA* might cause different effects than other mRNA (of which there are literally trillions of different kinds sloshing around inside your cells right now) but the odds of that mRNA doing anything bad to you have to be vanishingly small.
The major technical challenge with mRNA vaccines was keeping them intact in our bodies long enough to do some good. Which again makes it seem unlikely that there could be any long-term side effects.
There is another side of this, however. We do know quite a bit about long-term effects of COVID. We know that people who had the very similar SARS and MERS viruses often had long-term cardiovascular and lung problems, some of which have persisted for more than a decade and may well be permanent. We are seeing pretty good evidence that some people do not recover completely from infection, and some of them may well be permanently damaged by the disease. What we do not know is that if the virus has found some reservoir in the body where it may launch another possibly fatal attack years later -- like we know happens with HIV and non-A, non-B hepatitis. So you need to put your thinking cap on and make a complex and important decision in the face of limited and necessarily imperfect information. For me at least it is pretty darned clear.
Finally, just recently Moderna announced Phase I clinical trials of an mRNA vaccine for HIV. That is a huge deal. And keep in mind that Moderna is running a big risk and writing some big checks getting a new vaccine like this into a clinical trial, and I have a hard time thinking they'd do it if they weren't extremely confident that mRNA vaccines are very safe. And very effective.
Even more finally, deciding whether or not to get this vaccine is a major health care decision with consequences not just for your own health but for that of your family and community. So you shouldn't be taking medical advice from people on the internet -- even if that advice is from me. Please, please, please speak to your doctor. Just pick up the phone and call them and ask them what they think. Like I said in a previous post, we have some pretty good doctors here and they seem like stand-up folks. So listen to what they have to say.
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by SonoraJane » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:42 pm
Fact sheet: 350 million doses of vaccines have been given from Dec '20 to August 16, 2021. Of that 6,789 deaths have been reported which is .0019%.
I like those odds much better than the unvaccinated odds.
Susan Finn
Twisp WA
Stay Safe, Social Distance
WEAR A MASK
Fact sheet: 350 million doses of vaccines have been given from Dec '20 to August 16, 2021. Of that 6,789 deaths have been reported which is .0019%.
I like those odds much better than the unvaccinated odds.
Susan Finn
Twisp WA
Stay Safe, Social Distance
WEAR A MASK
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by Susan » Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:58 pm
I'm curious how the vaccinated viral loads affect transmission!
So glad it's making you feel safer and giving you some peace of mind Pearl, "But this vaccine is safe in that if I get Covid, I feel pretty good that I won't die." And that you're not worried about 10 years from now. It's definitely being touted that you will have a milder case. Will be interesting to keep an eye on Israel.
I also understand and respect other's valid concerns about potential adverse affects 10 years from now (which only time will tell), as well as if they will be one of the few who have adverse affects (especially when the pharma's have received carte blanche 0 liability). Also, some I know with no underlying health conditions made their risk assessment off of Covid's low mortality rate. Sadly, the FDA's recall record doesn't provide a lot of confidence to some of them. However, I believe FDA approval will help some feel comfortable with moving forward with an injection.
Cheers
I'm curious how the vaccinated viral loads affect transmission!
So glad it's making you feel safer and giving you some peace of mind Pearl, "But this vaccine is safe in that if I get Covid, I feel pretty good that I won't die." And that you're not worried about 10 years from now. It's definitely being touted that you will have a milder case. Will be interesting to keep an eye on Israel.
I also understand and respect other's valid concerns about potential adverse affects 10 years from now (which only time will tell), as well as if they will be one of the few who have adverse affects (especially when the pharma's have received carte blanche 0 liability). Also, some I know with no underlying health conditions made their risk assessment off of Covid's low mortality rate. Sadly, the FDA's recall record doesn't provide a lot of confidence to some of them. However, I believe FDA approval will help some feel comfortable with moving forward with an injection.
Cheers
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by Reapward » Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:30 pm
Just wondering how sick do the vaccinated become that were shown to carry the same viral loads as the unvaccinated? Yes, there are many drugs people take that the FDA has not approved and many they have approved that probably shouldn't be. But this vaccine is safe in that if I get Covid, I feel pretty good that I won't die. David, do you have any papers that back this up and that you could tell people about?
Read a lengthy article about what is happening in Israel but can't find it now.
Long term studies...I figure I'm going to die of something, so it doesn't matter to me if this vaccine does something to me in 10 yrs. Next year? Then I might be disappointed.
Pearl Cherrington
Just wondering how sick do the vaccinated become that were shown to carry the same viral loads as the unvaccinated? Yes, there are many drugs people take that the FDA has not approved and many they have approved that probably shouldn't be. But this vaccine is safe in that if I get Covid, I feel pretty good that I won't die. David, do you have any papers that back this up and that you could tell people about?
Read a lengthy article about what is happening in Israel but can't find it now.
Long term studies...I figure I'm going to die of something, so it doesn't matter to me if this vaccine does something to me in 10 yrs. Next year? Then I might be disappointed.
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by Susan » Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:02 pm
Dear Pearl.
Remember at the very start Fauci said was not necessary to mask only health care workers? Recently, gov't removed most mask mandates knowing very well that the majority of the public were not vaccinated. Interesting. I think.
Note, Israel has Covid surge despite mass vaccination.
FYI, "New data was released by the CDC last week showing that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant carry viral loads similar to those of people who are unvaccinated."
Stay well.
Last edited by Susan on Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dear Pearl.
Remember at the very start Fauci said was not necessary to mask only health care workers? Recently, gov't removed most mask mandates knowing very well that the majority of the public were not vaccinated. Interesting. I think.
Note, Israel has Covid surge despite mass vaccination.
FYI, "New data was released by the CDC last week showing that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant carry viral loads similar to those of people who are unvaccinated."
Stay well.
Last edited by Susan on Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
Post by Susan » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:50 pm
With respect.
Please provide evidence regarding, "a vaccine that has been shown to be very safe". (I have not seen any "long-term" studies).
"The FDA’s job is to carefully evaluate the scientific data on a drug to be sure that it is both safe and effective for a particular use, and then to decide whether or not to approve it."
However, on the flip-side:
"How many drugs does the FDA recall every year?
On average, about 4,500 drugs and devices are pulled from U.S. shelves each year. The recalled products have U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval and in many cases, are widely ingested, injected or implanted before being recalled"
Does that stat reflect that quite often, the FDA approves a drug to be 'both safe and effective' but quite often later changes their minds - meaning the drug turns out to not be safe and effective after-all?
Regarding statement of, "hospitals full of unvaccinated". Israel has a surge of Covid too 'despite' mass population vaccinated.
Not meant to come across as for or against new injections. Just sharing counter side thoughts.
With respect.
Please provide evidence regarding, "a vaccine that has been shown to be very safe". (I have not seen any "long-term" studies).
"The FDA’s job is to carefully evaluate the scientific data on a drug to be sure that it is both safe and effective for a particular use, and then to decide whether or not to approve it."
However, on the flip-side:
"How many drugs does the FDA recall every year?
On average, about 4,500 drugs and devices are pulled from U.S. shelves each year. The recalled products have U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval and in many cases, are widely ingested, injected or implanted before being recalled"
Does that stat reflect that quite often, the FDA approves a drug to be 'both safe and effective' but quite often later changes their minds - meaning the drug turns out to not be safe and effective after-all?
Regarding statement of, "hospitals full of unvaccinated". Israel has a surge of Covid too 'despite' mass population vaccinated.
Not meant to come across as for or against new injections. Just sharing counter side thoughts.
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
Post by Reapward » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:25 pm
David is correct in that the vaccine will keep people from getting as sick if they didn't have the vaccine and keep people out of the hospital and dying.
Mobarika, there is nothing that will 100% that will kill this virus or they have not discovered it yet. If a majority of people were to have gotten vaccinated, then the Delta variant may not have been able to get a foothold. But since the vaccination rate fell below what they would have liked, mutations came roaring in.
The vaccinated have been very patient in all this, I think. Is our patience running thin?
We've listened to countless baseless fears about the vaccine from people against it.
Ok, so people don't want to take the vaccine. My question is, are they masking?
Pearl Cherrington
David is correct in that the vaccine will keep people from getting as sick if they didn't have the vaccine and keep people out of the hospital and dying.
Mobarika, there is nothing that will 100% that will kill this virus or they have not discovered it yet. If a majority of people were to have gotten vaccinated, then the Delta variant may not have been able to get a foothold. But since the vaccination rate fell below what they would have liked, mutations came roaring in.
The vaccinated have been very patient in all this, I think. Is our patience running thin?
We've listened to countless baseless fears about the vaccine from people against it.
Ok, so people don't want to take the vaccine. My question is, are they masking?
Pearl Cherrington
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by mr_coffee » Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:57 pm
Mobarika wrote:
> David Bonn. I do respect your opinion about mine. The answer to your
> question.. friends of mine and 2 family members. Thank you for the
> question. Ivermectin has been proven to work too btw. many studies from top
> doctors who have tested that one too. Many things can work against this
> plague... Not just and only the vaccine. Play it safe they say... get the
> vaccine they say... you can and will still get covid and it may kill you,
> but get it anyways they say... What exactly will work 100 percent to kill
> this virus???
I'm sorry, but while you can still get infected with covid if you are vaccinated, your chances of going to the hospital or dying of covid if you are vaccinated are pretty small. What we are seeing is that over 95% (sometimes more like 99%) of the people who are in the hospital are unvaccinated. So I've got to like my odds right now. On the other hand I hate to see others suffer and also am very sad that we can't get beyond this because a lot of people are passing around bad information.
People are poisoning themselves with Ivermectin, which is a livestock dewormer. People are poisoning themselves with toxic metals ("colloidal silver"). People are poisoning themselves by literally drinking bleach. This seems to me to be a lot of trouble to go through to avoid a vaccine that has been shown to be very safe (and for sure much safer than risking covid) and is available at no cost to you.
Keep in mind that the largest clinical trial of Ivermectin was withdrawn because of plagiarism and data manipulation. If you take that trial out (and you should) there is very little evidence that Ivermectin helps you and there is plentiful evidence that it isn't good for you. So please stay healthy and don't take it.
If you have questions about the vaccine, or about some treatment, you shouldn't get your information from the Internet. Please speak to your doctor and at least listen to what they have to say. We are lucky to have some damned good doctors in this community and all of them I have met are stand up folks who would be honest with you and give you good advice.
David Bonn
Mobarika wrote:
> David Bonn. I do respect your opinion about mine. The answer to your
> question.. friends of mine and 2 family members. Thank you for the
> question. Ivermectin has been proven to work too btw. many studies from top
> doctors who have tested that one too. Many things can work against this
> plague... Not just and only the vaccine. Play it safe they say... get the
> vaccine they say... you can and will still get covid and it may kill you,
> but get it anyways they say... What exactly will work 100 percent to kill
> this virus???
I'm sorry, but while you can still get infected with covid if you are vaccinated, your chances of going to the hospital or dying of covid if you are vaccinated are pretty small. What we are seeing is that over 95% (sometimes more like 99%) of the people who are in the hospital are unvaccinated. So I've got to like my odds right now. On the other hand I hate to see others suffer and also am very sad that we can't get beyond this because a lot of people are passing around bad information.
People are poisoning themselves with Ivermectin, which is a livestock dewormer. People are poisoning themselves with toxic metals ("colloidal silver"). People are poisoning themselves by literally drinking bleach. This seems to me to be a lot of trouble to go through to avoid a vaccine that has been shown to be very safe (and for sure much safer than risking covid) and is available at no cost to you.
Keep in mind that the largest clinical trial of Ivermectin was withdrawn because of plagiarism and data manipulation. If you take that trial out (and you should) there is very little evidence that Ivermectin helps you and there is plentiful evidence that it isn't good for you. So please stay healthy and don't take it.
If you have questions about the vaccine, or about some treatment, you shouldn't get your information from the Internet. Please speak to your doctor and at least listen to what they have to say. We are lucky to have some damned good doctors in this community and all of them I have met are stand up folks who would be honest with you and give you good advice.
David Bonn
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by Mobarika » Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:43 pm
David Bonn. I do respect your opinion about mine. The answer to your question.. friends of mine and 2 family members. Thank you for the question. Ivermectin has been proven to work too btw. many studies from top doctors who have tested that one too. Many things can work against this plague... Not just and only the vaccine. Play it safe they say... get the vaccine they say... you can and will still get covid and it may kill you, but get it anyways they say... What exactly will work 100 percent to kill this virus???
David Bonn. I do respect your opinion about mine. The answer to your question.. friends of mine and 2 family members. Thank you for the question. Ivermectin has been proven to work too btw. many studies from top doctors who have tested that one too. Many things can work against this plague... Not just and only the vaccine. Play it safe they say... get the vaccine they say... you can and will still get covid and it may kill you, but get it anyways they say... What exactly will work 100 percent to kill this virus???
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by Susan » Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:37 pm
FYI
Google: how many FDA approved drugs have been taken off the market
Results reflect article, "Nearly a third of FDA-approved drugs had problems, study finds"
"People also ask
How many FDA approved drugs have been recalled?
Ongoing recalls have gained a noteworthy amount of attention and increased concerns among healthcare providers and the patients they treat. The KHN report states that from January 2013 to October 2018, almost 8,000 medications were recalled by pharmaceutical companies across the United States and abroad. Sep 17, 2019"
FYI
Google: how many FDA approved drugs have been taken off the market
Results reflect article, "Nearly a third of FDA-approved drugs had problems, study finds"
"People also ask
How many FDA approved drugs have been recalled?
Ongoing recalls have gained a noteworthy amount of attention and increased concerns among healthcare providers and the patients they treat. The KHN report states that from January 2013 to October 2018, almost 8,000 medications were recalled by pharmaceutical companies across the United States and abroad. Sep 17, 2019"
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by Susan » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:08 pm
One of the first lessons 'adults' taught children when I was growing up was to not call other names.
It is heartbreaking that those who are so called leaders, as well as those who control media, continue to incite the masses towards division and hatred. Remember the days and months of being told there were Weapons of Mass Destruction? How did that eventually turn out?
FACT: Israel, one of the first countries to have their masses injected.
FACT: Israel now struggles with Covid surge 'despite' mass vaccinations.
(i.e. can not blame new surge on the unvaccinated)
Now. According to Media:
"Health experts say there are two main reasons the Delta variant hit Israel so hard. For one, Israelis were flouting the mask requirements, which were re-imposed at the end of June...
The other reason given for the high rate of infection is that most Israelis were vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, which data shows is less effective than the Moderna jab against the virus."
So, we now have "new" data form Israel, Pfizer may be less effective than Moderna (yet FDA just approved Pfizer) - as well as other new findings coming out, and will be coming out, in the days and months ahead of us. These are all "new" injections.
I had a beloved family member die a few weeks ago (older and with comobidies). I have five more relatives now sick with Covid most injected, a few non-injected. I love and respect them all!! But guess what? Like a lot of other people are doing now they 'chose' to gather (my 'opinion' regarding latest surge in Covid).
One of the first lessons 'adults' taught children when I was growing up was to not call other names.
It is heartbreaking that those who are so called leaders, as well as those who control media, continue to incite the masses towards division and hatred. Remember the days and months of being told there were Weapons of Mass Destruction? How did that eventually turn out?
FACT: Israel, one of the first countries to have their masses injected.
FACT: Israel now struggles with Covid surge 'despite' mass vaccinations.
(i.e. can not blame new surge on the unvaccinated)
Now. According to Media:
"Health experts say there are two main reasons the Delta variant hit Israel so hard. For one, Israelis were flouting the mask requirements, which were re-imposed at the end of June...
The other reason given for the high rate of infection is that most Israelis were vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, which data shows is less effective than the Moderna jab against the virus."
So, we now have "new" data form Israel, Pfizer may be less effective than Moderna (yet FDA just approved Pfizer) - as well as other new findings coming out, and will be coming out, in the days and months ahead of us. These are all "new" injections.
I had a beloved family member die a few weeks ago (older and with comobidies). I have five more relatives now sick with Covid most injected, a few non-injected. I love and respect them all!! But guess what? Like a lot of other people are doing now they 'chose' to gather (my 'opinion' regarding latest surge in Covid).
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by mr_coffee » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:01 pm
Mobarika wrote:
> ... birth defects and low birth rate...
Where are you coming up with that as a side effect of the vaccines? Please forgive my skepticism, but it was my understanding that pregnant women were only cleared to take the vaccines in April. It is hard for me to imagine how you'd find a significant signal in birth defects in that time and flat-out impossible that you'd be able to extrapolate anything about birth rates in that time. You can't get around the fact that April was four months ago, and please recall that human gestation is approximately nine months.
David Bonn
Mobarika wrote:
> ... birth defects and low birth rate...
Where are you coming up with that as a side effect of the vaccines? Please forgive my skepticism, but it was my understanding that pregnant women were only cleared to take the vaccines in April. It is hard for me to imagine how you'd find a significant signal in birth defects in that time and flat-out impossible that you'd be able to extrapolate anything about birth rates in that time. You can't get around the fact that April was four months ago, and please recall that human gestation is approximately nine months.
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by mr_coffee » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:50 pm
I know people who have died from covid. I know people who have been in the hospital from covid. I don't know anyone who has died from a covid vaccine, and I don't know anyone who has been hospitalized from a serious complication from a covid vaccine.
That is all anecdotal evidence, but the risk from serious complications from any covid vaccine appear to be less than 1 out of 100,000, and death is an even lower risk than that. However, your risk of dying from covid are around 1 percent. Please do the math.
David Bonn
I know people who have died from covid. I know people who have been in the hospital from covid. I don't know anyone who has died from a covid vaccine, and I don't know anyone who has been hospitalized from a serious complication from a covid vaccine.
That is all anecdotal evidence, but the risk from serious complications from any covid vaccine appear to be less than 1 out of 100,000, and death is an even lower risk than that. However, your risk of dying from covid are around 1 percent. Please do the math.
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by Mobarika » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:40 pm
Getting the vaccine is a hard Decision to make for some. A lot of people are dying from it. A lot of people are experiencing adverse effects with major changes in the body. Heart problems, high blood pressure, birth defects and low birth rate... etc. People are still getting covid after taking the shot and dying from the covid anyways even after taking the shot. What are they supposed to think. What are we all supposed to think from all this. This calling people anti vaxer crap has to stop. People are scared to take it, people are dying from the shot, people are dying from covid. You all need to take your covid bashing else where besides this place. Talking about it to get information, ya sure, putting others down for what they are going through? No. If you had to jump off of a cliff with some sort of parachute to save your life would you? Even if the instructions says it might save your life? I do my part with all this and if I see someone else not doing theirs, I let God take care of them.
Getting the vaccine is a hard Decision to make for some. A lot of people are dying from it. A lot of people are experiencing adverse effects with major changes in the body. Heart problems, high blood pressure, birth defects and low birth rate... etc. People are still getting covid after taking the shot and dying from the covid anyways even after taking the shot. What are they supposed to think. What are we all supposed to think from all this. This calling people anti vaxer crap has to stop. People are scared to take it, people are dying from the shot, people are dying from covid. You all need to take your covid bashing else where besides this place. Talking about it to get information, ya sure, putting others down for what they are going through? No. If you had to jump off of a cliff with some sort of parachute to save your life would you? Even if the instructions says it might save your life? I do my part with all this and if I see someone else not doing theirs, I let God take care of them.
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
Post by mr_coffee » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:24 pm
The good news is that now that the Pfizer vaxx is FDA-approved most employers, and probably all large employers, will rapidly require all of their employees be vaccinated.
David Bonn
The good news is that now that the Pfizer vaxx is FDA-approved most employers, and probably all large employers, will rapidly require all of their employees be vaccinated.
David Bonn
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by Solstice » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:42 pm
I'd personally like to keep the word "stupid" out of the conversation. What we should be thinking about is the stress and heartache of hospital and medical clinic staffs, the well being of our families and community, and the will to continue the battle against a very stealthy pathogen.
The FDA fully approved the Pfizer vaccine today, replacing the emergency use authorization granted by the agency last December. I doubt few readers here can honestly say they've never taken a FDA approved drug sometime during the course of their lives. It just makes sense to avail oneself of modern medicines, readily available masks, proper distancing if appropriate and keeping up-to-date with Covid-19 information sent out by local and statewide medical professionals.
Jim Brennan
I'd personally like to keep the word "stupid" out of the conversation. What we should be thinking about is the stress and heartache of hospital and medical clinic staffs, the well being of our families and community, and the will to continue the battle against a very stealthy pathogen.
The FDA fully approved the Pfizer vaccine today, replacing the emergency use authorization granted by the agency last December. I doubt few readers here can honestly say they've never taken a FDA approved drug sometime during the course of their lives. It just makes sense to avail oneself of modern medicines, readily available masks, proper distancing if appropriate and keeping up-to-date with Covid-19 information sent out by local and statewide medical professionals.
Jim Brennan
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by ciderman » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:39 pm
Just goes to show, You can’t regulate Stupid! But, in the words of that Great American
Philosopher, Forrest Gump, Stupid is when Stupid’s Dead! Or something like That!
ciderman
Just goes to show, You can’t regulate Stupid! But, in the words of that Great American
Philosopher, Forrest Gump, Stupid is when Stupid’s Dead! Or something like That!
ciderman
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Re: "The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
by Solstice » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:45 am
Top story in today's Wenatchee World:
Hospital pushed to its limit, ICU at capacity, as COVID patients surge.
Thirty-seven patients hospitalized at Central Washington Hospital with COVID-19 are stretching the hospital staff to the limit and hurting their ability to provide an ideal level of care to patients, hospital officials say.
The total count is up from 29 on Monday and is the highest of this year. Five of those 37 are in the intensive care unit and another 17 are in critical condition, according to Andrew Canning, Confluence Health spokesperson. Two of the 37 are fully vaccinated and are not in the ICU or in critical condition, he said.
Hospitals all across the state are filling up, making transferring patients difficult, according to Dr. Jason Lake, Confluence Health chief medical officer.
Lake said the biggest challenge stressing Confluence Health is its severe staff shortage.
"Our shortages are more extreme currently than they have been at any time prior in the pandemic," he said.
Jim Brennan
Top story in today's Wenatchee World:
Hospital pushed to its limit, ICU at capacity, as COVID patients surge.
Thirty-seven patients hospitalized at Central Washington Hospital with COVID-19 are stretching the hospital staff to the limit and hurting their ability to provide an ideal level of care to patients, hospital officials say.
The total count is up from 29 on Monday and is the highest of this year. Five of those 37 are in the intensive care unit and another 17 are in critical condition, according to Andrew Canning, Confluence Health spokesperson. Two of the 37 are fully vaccinated and are not in the ICU or in critical condition, he said.
Hospitals all across the state are filling up, making transferring patients difficult, according to Dr. Jason Lake, Confluence Health chief medical officer.
Lake said the biggest challenge stressing Confluence Health is its severe staff shortage.
"Our shortages are more extreme currently than they have been at any time prior in the pandemic," he said.
Jim Brennan
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"The unvaccinated are applying a lot of pressure to our hospital," said Dr. George Diaz
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Post by ed » Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:16 am
"Hospitals, already struggling to maintain staff, are being forced to make hard decisions about how to keep beds free, Washington State Hospital Association CEO Cassie Sauer said during a news conference Thursday. They've already been postponing nonemergencies like cancer and heart procedures for weeks in some cases and are trying to discharge patients who would be better served at long-term care facilities.
This increase is being driven by unvaccinated people, upping the angst for health care workers."
Source: https://www.bigcountrynewsconnection.co ... e0651.html
Ed Menendez - Twisp
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Post by ed » Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:16 am
"Hospitals, already struggling to maintain staff, are being forced to make hard decisions about how to keep beds free, Washington State Hospital Association CEO Cassie Sauer said during a news conference Thursday. They've already been postponing nonemergencies like cancer and heart procedures for weeks in some cases and are trying to discharge patients who would be better served at long-term care facilities.
This increase is being driven by unvaccinated people, upping the angst for health care workers."
Source: https://www.bigcountrynewsconnection.co ... e0651.html
Ed Menendez - Twisp
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