Survey of conditions at Wagner Pool

[Fun CH]

The land in the industrial area behind Blackbirds doesn't have anything on it except dirt and weeds at this point. I had read somewhere that it is a possibility for the new complex. However, they do tout having it in walking distance for people where ever it is located. Not the greatest walk crossing the bridge.
But they don't want it near the school as that is not feasible so it was said. So it could be located somewhere in Winthrop as you say.
Here is the problem. We are supposed to approve a taxing district before, before, the location is even known. Before the desgin of the pool.
Before the true costs are revealed as these are unknowns right now. And won't be known until the levy were to pass. And even then....

I posted this in another thread but it pertains to the discussion here as well.

Notice that in their latest Facebook ad once again the FOP doesnt say please keep a public pool in Twisp. They said instead, "Please help us keep a public pool in our community."


No doubt in my mind that this mega pool/spa would be located in Winthrop next to all the tourist and existing recreational facilities, such as ski/walking trails, fat bike trails and ice rink. It will be located next to the ice rink or nearby on State-owned Land that is part of the fish hatchery. If the State doesn't want to give that land up, the town of Winthrop would have no problem condemning that land and claiming it by eminent domain and put that land into public use which is their right by law. see RCW 8.12. 030

There is a lot support, even from opponents of Proposition 1 to continue having a pool operational in Twisp. A one time excess levy could raise enough money to make that happen. But prop 1 isn't about a pool.

Proposition 1 is about establishing a Metropolitan Park District to develop tourist based recreational facilities in Winthrop and Mazama which is the center of recreation in our Valley. Twisp is the designated service community.

Don't believe me? Ask the FOP to commit to Twisp for the Mega Spa before the election. Everything else they write is just a sales pitch designed to win the FOP board unchecked power and control of a enormous amount of our money as MPD commissioners. Interesting that the FOP has chosen to use scare tactics telling community members that there will be no pool, no swimming without a Metropolitan Park District. That just is not true.

Ironically, the best way for citizens of Twisp to keep a pool in Twisp is to vote no on Proposition 1.

[PAL]

The land in the industrial area behind Blackbirds doesn't have anything on it except dirt and weeds at this point. I had read somewhere that it is a possibility for the new complex. However, they do tout having it in walking distance for people where ever it is located. Not the greatest walk crossing the bridge.
But they don't want it near the school as that is not feasible so it was said. So it could be located somewhere in Winthrop as you say.
Here is the problem. We are supposed to approve a taxing district before, before, the location is even known. Before the desgin of the pool.
Before the true costs are revealed as these are unknowns right now. And won't be known until the levy were to pass. And even then....

[Fun CH]

Probably not constructed in Winthrop... What land would be available?

Probably in the Twisp "business park" area across the river is my guess.

I would guess the land adjacent to the ice rink.

The FOP may claim they are not seeking eminent domain, however if prop 1 passes the new unelected Metropolitan Park District Board of Commissioners hold a great amount of bargaining power with our tax money.

Cities like Winthrop still have that power of eminent domain and could acquire any property for public use.

See: Chapter 8.12 RCW Dispositions
EMINENT DOMAIN BY CITIES

Why would a facility like a mega spa be located in an industrial area of Twisp? Have you seen that area lately?

The FOP never committed to Twisp as the location for the Mega Spa. Their statement concerning the matter was saying that they wanted to replace the Wagner pool, but not where.

Here is the wording that the FOP used on their website.

"The Methow Aquatics Center (MAC) is a multi-purpose aquatics facility that can be used ALL year by EVERYONE in the Methow Valley. It will replace the Wagner Pool in Twisp at a new location. "

They didn't say "it will replace the Wagner pool at a new location in Twisp".

[pasayten]

Probably not constructed in Winthrop... What land would be available?

Probably in the Twisp "business park" area across the river is my guess.

[Fun CH]

Here's a quote from 2014 MVN article when the MPD issue was on the Ballot and defeated, stating the Wagner pool is repairable.

"But the pool continues to leak water at the rate of about 7,500 gallons per day. That’s equivalent to a garden hose running full force all day long, said Twisp Public Works Superintendent Howard Moss. Moss has worked to locate and repair leaks, but they are so pervasive that only a very expensive reconstruction of the pool structure can solve the problem."

I don't know what the current status of the pool leak is, but many public pools do leak water. The Wagner Pool will close on Sept 2nd this year. We can have some incredibly warm days in September but the kids are going back to school and the parents want a mega spa most likely to be constructed in Winthrop close to the existing tourist infrastructure.

Again Prop 1 isn't about building a pool, Twisp already has a serviceable pool. Prop 1 is about establishing a non voter accountable Metropolitan tax District that furthers the regressive tax burden that low income people and people on fixed income including seniors.

In a study by Washington State, low income people pay 15.7% of their income to regressive taxes like property and sales taxes. Contrast that to people with higher incomes who pay only 4.4% of their income for the same taxes.

Even Washington State recognizes that property taxes are regressive and hurt the poor.

Vote NO on prop 1 this November.

[Jingles]

These recent arrivals to the Methow Valley are dedicated
swimmers that want to enjoy a social scene with their children and create a place that will attract more tourism.

Call me confrontational but I disagree that they might be dedicated swimmers they are more likely dedicated spenders of other people's money for their recreational dreams

[PAL]

Right no official survey in Town minutes. is there anywhere else. But when the Town had responsibility you would think there would be. I think the paper at one time listed the problems, but that is not an official survey.

[realoldtimer]

I have all those figures, Pearl, and have scanned minutes to see if there's any mention of an official survey. Haven't found one yet.

Considering what I've personally witnessed happening during Wagner pool repairs and rehabs, it doesn't surprise me that there's a leak -- probably more than one. Nor does the fact that the pool deck is cracking surprise me, the fill under it is probably being degraded by the leaking.

But, those things are repairable, and if done properly, can make the facility usable for a long while. Too many corners have been cut during previous fixes.

FYI, Chris -- Justin told me a while back he would rather swim in the river than in any chlorinated pool. I think he is doing his job as lead on pushing through Prop.1, when he says his dream is the mega-spa. But then, we all change our minds from time to time --- right?

[PAL]

To clarify, those dollar amounts were figures I got from the Twisp Facilities Budget agenda and minutes. I will try to find which month that was in. It could have been in the Dec. 2022 minutes if they were discussing the 2023 budget or the long range budget that is about a five year plan.
Unfortunately I did not Bookmark it, so it requires going into each meeting minutes of each month to find it. I haven't had the time to do this.
It wasn't easy but this is what I found for April and it is a draft. I believe I saw a more recent budget and I don't think I saw money for a pool.
The numbers after each item listed is the priority. I will try to find the budget where it may have been struck.
4/25/23
Rescue hook and pole $650 X FOP 1
Planning and Design of new
aquatics center $180,000 X RCO 2
Replace Front Entry Doors $2,000 X Local 3
Security Cameras at Pool
Entrances 1000 X FOP 4
Cracks on Pool Deck $750 X Local 5
Construction of new
aquatics center $7,500,000 X RCO/Local 6

Also, here is the whole presentation on the Town Council's meeting minutes. I hope this link works for you. About page 8 is where it begins. Sounds like FOP was at the Council meeting answering questions.

https://cms5.revize.com/revize/twispwa/ ... DATED).pdf

[Fun CH]

I've asked certain people who have either not answered or evaded answering my question.

I believe any survey of the Wagner Pool should be public knowledge -- should be as available as the proposed MAC data is ---

Why isn't it?

I'm not trying to change FOP's goals, just trying to find out why $180K was spent on a design to rehab, renovate, or replace Wagner, and $7M was allocated for it.

I think thevoters need to know this, and it should really show FOP's tunnel focus.

I think it's important to know who you asked and exactly what their answer was?

it seems if a survey existed that said the pool is beyond repair they would willingly share it to support their objective. If a person has an inkling of support for the mega spa, all the FOP has to do is say the pool is beyond repair and it will be believed.

That's also human nature, we look for any information that will support our bias and believe that information (misinformation), as truth.

But if you've noticed, they have put out a lot of contradictory and misleading information, and going so far as saying they don't need our tax money to pay for the Mega Spa.

FOP quote August letter to the editor.

"Mr Oulman implies that we are asking the public to foot the bill of building the pool. Not so!"

https://pasayten.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f ... 291c363150

Sadly some will believe that's true.

[realoldtimer]

I've asked certain people who have either not answered or evaded answering my question.

I believe any survey of the Wagner Pool should be public knowledge -- should be as available as the proposed MAC data is ---

Why isn't it?

I'm not trying to change FOP's goals, just trying to find out why $180K was spent on a design to rehab, renovate, or replace Wagner, and $7M was allocated for it.

I think thevoters need to know this, and it should really show FOP's tunnel focus.

[Fun CH]

I've been searching for any survey of the condition that Wagner Pool is in -- and why it's said to be 'beyond repair.'

Anyone have such a document -- or the link to access it?

We know there's a leak, and I read the "pipes are rusty" --- leaks are fixable and my pipes are rusty from condensation -- so, what's the deal, really?

Years ago, back when the wading pool was created and the slide purchased, another building designer, a professional engineer, and myself roughed out plans to enclose the existing facility with a free-span metal structure, making it usable year-round. Pool rehab was over budget, Mayor Mike Price was working hands-on to finish job, and we couldn't seem to interest anyone, nor find the money to get it done.

Anyway, I'd sure like to see a pool condition survey.

as head of the fop board
Sarah would be the one to ask. I'm sure most all of them are good people in that they love their children and serve the community. Sarah should especially understand the plight of the low income people here in the Valley that can't really afford to fund their dream mega spa.

However our wants and desires shapes our reasoning and often blinds us to reality, ie we often insulate ourselves from that reality with our reasoning.That's just human nature.

What I'm saying is it doesn't matter if a survey exists, they want what they want.

However, the voters should know the answer to the question you're asking.

[realoldtimer]

I know all that, Chris. And after living here for 42 years, personally know many, maybe most, of the FOP.

I'm not questioning their wants or needs and do understand that most of them grew up during our society's 'toss-it' years.

Having worked in and around design and construction most of my life, I'd like to see an "official" survey. Beginning to doubt there is one. Most of the feedback I've gotten over the years was hearsay feedback from the untrained Town employees charged with running the pool. And I can remember several instances when proper maintenance and operations work didn't hapoen causing things, like overdosng chlorine input, etc.

Survey, anyone???

[Fun CH]

Keeping the historical Wagner pool open is not an option for these folks. Pearl already mentioned that she found 7 million in the Twisp budget for the Wagner pool. Its not about the kids having a pool or that 7 million would be utilized to keep the Wagner pool going. It's about what the parents desire and thats Year round swimming in the cold, sometimes arctic cold, place they chose to move.

Perhaps a call to the FOP will answer your question?

Its clear that the FOP want's a 25 million dollar+ year round indoor heated mega spa. Its their dream.

These recent arrivals to the Methow Valley are dedicated swimmers that want to enjoy a social scene with their children and create a place that will attract more tourism.

Here is one of the board members biography from their site. She's a "recreational planner" and is obviously wealthy enough to be a World Traveler, and perhaps insulated from the plight of the vulnerable people that she desires to pay for her dream mega spa and likely will be one of well paid Metropolitan Park District commissioners.

That's all fine but they want us to pay for THEIR DREAM and high paying jobs doing recreational planning.

I invite Sarah to join the conversation here (not likely, they only claim to be "beholden" to the voters)

"Sarah joined the board in 2009 and became the Board Chairman and works as the Operations Manager for FoP. A former lifeguard and swim instructor through high school and college, Sarah has swum in every ocean in the world besides the Arctic and SCUBA dives. Sarah enjoys lap swim in the mornings and when her two boys graduated from swim lessons, joined the swim team. They are frequent visitors during open swim on hot summer days. She is a columnist for the Methow Valley News and works as an urban planner. Sarah dreams of seeing a recreation center in Twisp with a year-round warm therapy pool to serve seniors and young families."

[realoldtimer]

I've been searching for any survey of the condition that Wagner Pool is in -- and why it's said to be 'beyond repair.'

Anyone have such a document -- or the link to access it?

We know there's a leak, and I read the "pipes are rusty" --- leaks are fixable and my pipes are rusty from condensation -- so, what's the deal, really?

Years ago, back when the wading pool was created and the slide purchased, another building designer, a professional engineer, and myself roughed out plans to enclose the existing facility with a free-span metal structure, making it usable year-round. Pool rehab was over budget, Mayor Mike Price was working hands-on to finish job, and we couldn't seem to interest anyone, nor find the money to get it done.

Anyway, I'd sure like to see a pool condition survey.