Proud Boys closing arguments - now in the hands of the jury

[just-jim]

Former Proud Boys extremist group leader Enrique, and three others, have been convicted of seditious conspiracy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... onspiracy/

[Fun CH]

https://www.lawfareblog.com/proud-boys- ... -conundrum

kind of funny, another media source that "forgets" to mention that Trump said in his speech,
"marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard".

I would think that the peaceful part of trump speech would be more significant to mention in left wing media, but I guess they don't always think so.

That article only mentioned the "fight like hell" part which is common political nomenclature.

And Ironic isn't it.

From Sept 23,2020

"Rep. Jamie Raskin
@RepRaskin
The GOP rush to replace Justice Ginsburg is all about destroying the Affordable Care Act, women’s health care and reproductive freedom, and the voting rights and civil rights of the people. We must fight like hell to stop this assault on health care and the Constitution."

This was also posted on Twitter according to the NY post, but I didn't confirm that tweet.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com ... -hell/amp/

[Rideback]

https://www.lawfareblog.com/proud-boys- ... -conundrum

[Fun CH]

My statement that you want to challenge stands.

Then you are not looking at the facts.

You said;

"He didn't call for peace in the build up"

Trump did call for a peaceful protest in his speech. Do you deny that or do you want to add spin?

You said;

"or in the moment, only afterwards."

Trump did ask for peace in his two Tweets while the riot was still taking place.

And yes he was asked to do more by his people. That doesn' t alter the facts in regards to the misinformation that you posted.

I don't believe your misinformation was intentional, I believe you weren't aware of the facts or the timeline of his tweets and obviously the fact that he called for peaceful protest in his speech. Those facts were, shall we say, underreported by the extreme left-wing media that you follow.

That media (Crooks&Liers) site and many others, left and right, need you to stay triggered for cash.

My suggestion is at the very least take a break from social media, go out, volunteer and do something constructive for the community that you joined when you moved to this Valley.

I was fortunate that I was young when I moved to Okanogan County in 1979 and my values were shaped by the hard working people here. I worked with both Republicans and Democrats cooperatively to literally build this community.

We learned to respect one another despite our political differences.

[Rideback]

No, I doubt the jury will believe that Trump made them do it. After all, previous juries have already voted guilty for other insurgents who tried to use that. But that premise isn't then useless. It give prosecutors who are working their way up the chain of actors to demonstrate that Trump believed he would be the beneficiary of their actions, that his instigation was intentional.That he knew before J6 that he was using false information to incite these people is key.

My statement that you want to challenge stands. Trump made false statements to a crowd at the Elipse, which were the normies, and had incited the 2nd crowd that was breeching the Capitol. After the breech aides and family members and even Fox pundits begged him to calm down his people. There are tapes the J6 committee played of Trump rehearsing his speech where he balked several times from calling the insurgents off. Simultaneously, in his speeches you quote from he was (take a look at the Jake Tapper tape) inciting the crowds more by telling them the election had been rigged against them and him - while he knew the truth in the moment.

The point of the Proud Boys' trial closing arguments is to see how they viewed the lead up, the Stop the Steal campaign and Trump social media and speeches as a call to arms. That was their interpretation and why they showed up.

[Fun CH]

No, look at the timeline you posted. Read it.

yea, I did and the statement that you made is not supported by the facts of that time line.

Your statement, Quote;

"He didn't call for peace in the build up or in the moment, only afterwards."

He called for a peaceful protest before the planned march to the Capitol and while the riot was in progress.

That obviously wasn't enough to control the crowd, however he did try contrary to your opinion.

And do you really think that the jury is going to be swayed by the "Trump made me do it" defense?

[Rideback]

No, look at the timeline you posted. Read it.

[Fun CH]

I'd suggest you check the timeline again as well as the background of how his aides, including Ivanka, had to beg him to say something to stop the violence. His 2 tweets, according to the timeline, were after the breach. Remembering that there were 2 crowds, the Proud Boys, Oathkeepers already at the Capitol and the 'normies' (as they called them) listening to Trump's speech.

You are ignorning the tapes and the testimony in the Proud Boys' trial and, again, their defense that Trump was their commander in chief, that his words brought them to DC, that he instigated the insurrection and they felt he would pardon them for their patriotism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_JxN9CwIMU

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-cap ... 022-07-21/

Not only did I check the timeline, I posted it. Yes those two tweets, one where Trump clearly is calling for peace did occur after the capitol breach, but while the riot was in progress. However the narrative that Trump did nothing to stop the riot is not supported by the facts of those Tweets.

Also Trump clearly called for a peaceful demonstration in his speech prior to the planned march to the Capitol. The J6 committee spun that speech into 'well he said fight 32 times (or whatever that number was) so he didn't mean the peace part' (paraphrase).

My point is that you and others on the left have been so mislead by extreme left wing media narratives and the J6 committee that you posted the below quote which you mistakenly believed was true.

"After the insurrection was brought under control is when he declared 'go home in peace'. Timing is everything. He didn't call for peace in the build up or in the moment, only afterwards."

That statement you made is clearly wrong and now you are trying to roll it back by suggesting that it is me who needs to check the timeline. Just admit that you were duped and wrong.

And why would I even consider a defense attorney strategy of blaming someone else for their clients actions?

My hope is that you, and everyone else left or right, verify facts before blindly believing what your preferred media choice is trying to SELL you and before AMPLIFYING FALSE narratives on social media.

Too me, this lessen confirms what social psychology research points to concerning how humans process information. We process the stories we are told and desire to believe, rather than process the logic behind the facts.

Or as Paul Simon so eloquently wrote;

"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

[Rideback]

I'd suggest you check the timeline again as well as the background of how his aides, including Ivanka, had to beg him to say something to stop the violence. His 2 tweets, according to the timeline, were after the breach. Remembering that there were 2 crowds, the Proud Boys, Oathkeepers already at the Capitol and the 'normies' (as they called them) listening to Trump's speech.

You are ignorning the tapes and the testimony in the Proud Boys' trial and, again, their defense that Trump was their commander in chief, that his words brought them to DC, that he instigated the insurrection and they felt he would pardon them for their patriotism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_JxN9CwIMU

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-cap ... 022-07-21/

[Fun CH]

Timing of those Tweets according to Newsweek. These tweets occurred while the riot was in progress. At around 2:00 pm the Capitol was breached. Facts matter and are contrary to what Rideback has been posting.

"After the insurrection was brought under control is when he declared 'go home in peace'. Timing is everything. He didn't call for peace in the build up or in the moment, only afterwards."

Facts according to Newsweek timing article.

Trumps J6 speech

12:17 p.m.: Trump tells his supporters that they're going to "walk down to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women."

I'd add a few moments later in the speech Trump says"[marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."]

12:53 p.m.: The crowd outside the Capitol grows and confrontations with police begin

"2:38 p.m.: Trump urges people to "support our Capitol police and law enforcement," and tweets that "they are truly on the side of our country. Stay peaceful!"

"3:13 p.m.: Trump posts on Twitter that he's asking people at the Capitol to "remain peaceful" and not engage in violence: "Remember, we are the party of law and order–respect the law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!"

"3:19 p.m.: Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer call the Pentagon for help and are told the National Guard request was approved."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newswe ... 36%3famp=1

[Fun CH]

While Trumps Twitter account has been put back up the timestamps for his j6 tweets are no longer there. Here are two Tweets from that day. Let me do some research to see if I can find the timing of those tweets.

"Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
"Jan 6, 2021
I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
Jan 6, 2021
Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!"

[Fun CH]

Timing is everything. He didn't call for peace in the build up or in the moment, only afterwards.

Much of what you stated and more is a matter of public record brought to light by the J6 committee.

My point was that the left wing media often fails to mention that Trump called for the March to the capital to be peaceful prior to the march starting. I guess that information was left out of your media sources?.

Yes timing is everything.

Here is a quote from Trumps j6 speech where he states: "marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

He also says something about cheering on brave Senators Etc.

Here is that portion of the speech. The full transcript can be found at this link. I assume you trust NPR as a reliable source?

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/10/96639684 ... ment-trial

"And after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down, we're going to walk down.

Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.

I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

[Rideback]

Your assessment of Trump is incomplete. Thru speeches prior to J6 as well as social media and of course the constant slam of disinformation about the 'stolen election' and the December mtg with Eastman, Powell et al to concoct the strategy of using fake electors was all under the Trump umbrella.

The Proud Boys defense and their closing arguments were that they believed Trump was calling them to duty on J6. After the insurrection was brought under control is when he declared 'go home in peace'. Timing is everything. He didn't call for peace in the build up or in the moment, only afterwards.

The J6 committee brought to light and shown in the public hearings that Trump was aware he lost the election and Joe Biden won (multiple advisors testified they told him so), he was aware the conspiracy theories were not accurate (Bill Barr had a sit down with him to say explicitly there was no there there) and John Eastman told Trump to his face that his fake elector scheme had never been tested and that he thought it would fail.

Yet Trump continued to broadcast across the airwaves that the election was stolen, he continued to rake in millions under false pretenses with that lie, $ that he told people would go to a specific PAC that in fact never existed. Trump had his advisors spread the lies across the airwaves, work in tandem with Rep House and Senate members to promote the lies and take action J6. Fox tapes released demonstrate that Cruz is now in legal jeopardy for his role. Whether it was Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Alex Jones, Ted Cruz, MTG or Jim Jordan they all were working on one goal - to benefit Trump by keeping him illegally in office. Without Trump in the mix the whole premise of J6 falls apart.

[Fun CH]

Trump may have told them to "fight like hell" but he also told to act peacefully. That part is often left out of left wing media. Why do you think that is?

From J 6 testimony, if I remember correctly, Trump really wanted to march with them to the Capitol but because of security concerns the Secret Service wouldn't allow that to happen. Do you think Trump would have wanted to personally participate in a riot smashing into the Capitol ?

The question of whether or not Trump tried to interfere with government process is legal matter and yet to be determined as part of the on going judicial process.

I think my assessment is accurate but it's not going to fire up the extreme left and make money for left wing media.

[Rideback]

Closing arguments in the months' long trial of the 4 Proud Boys for their role in J6. It's been a long and eye popping journey as each defendant struggled to find vindication. Today's closing arguments saw full bore defense attorney finger pointing at Trump. His role was what they wanted on trial, not the role of Trump's pawns.

https://crooksandliars.com/2023/04/prou ... -under-bus