The Pronoun Debate...

[Fun CH]

People whose gender is not male or female use many different terms to describe themselves, with nonbinary being one of the most common (sometimes spelled with a hyphen, as “non-binary”). Other terms include genderqueer, agender, bigender, genderfluid, and more. None of these terms mean exactly the same thing – but all speak to an experience of gender that is not simply male or female. If you’re not sure what a word means, you can usually just ask politely. "

https://transequality.org/issues/resour ... supportive

Hate to inform you but there is no such thing as a people that is not male or female. Some may choose to be the opposite of what they were assigned at birth due to anatomical characteristics but that does not change because they choose to act feminine or masculine.

perhaps these definitions may help you to understand the article that I quoted.

"Sex refers to a set of biological attributes in humans and animals. It is primarily associated with physical and physiological features including chromosomes, gene expression, hormone levels and function, and reproductive/sexual anatomy. Sex is usually categorized as female or male but there is variation in the biological attributes that comprise sex and how those attributes are expressed.

Gender refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, expressions and identities of girls, women, boys, men, and gender diverse people. It influences how people perceive themselves and each other, how they act and interact, and the distribution of power and resources in society. Gender identity is not confined to a binary (girl/woman, boy/man) nor is it static; it exists along a continuum and can change over time. There is considerable diversity in how individuals and groups understand, experience and express gender through the roles they take on, the expectations placed on them, relations with others and the complex ways that gender is institutionalized in society"

https://cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/48642.html

[Jingles]

People whose gender is not male or female use many different terms to describe themselves, with nonbinary being one of the most common (sometimes spelled with a hyphen, as “non-binary”). Other terms include genderqueer, agender, bigender, genderfluid, and more. None of these terms mean exactly the same thing – but all speak to an experience of gender that is not simply male or female. If you’re not sure what a word means, you can usually just ask politely. "

https://transequality.org/issues/resour ... supportive

Hate to inform you but there is no such thing as a people that is not male or female. Some may choose to be the opposite of what they were assigned at birth due to anatomical characteristics but that does not change because they choose to act feminine or masculine.

[pasayten]

SpaceX Starship’s pronouns are was/were.

[Fun CH]

It is interesting that Trumpism has used the word "woke" as a bad thing to be used as a political wedge issue, considering it's meaning.

From the web;


"To be "woke" politically in the Black community means that someone is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice and racial inequality, Merriam-Webster"


"Aunt Jemima is getting a new name, new logo and new look after announcing that it would be dropping the brand name following criticism that it featured a caricature of a Black woman that was a racist stereotype.Feb 10, 2021"


"Land O’Lakes Drops the Iconic Logo of an Indigenous Woman From Its Branding"

"In a company statement released earlier this year, Land O’Lakes president and CEO Beth Ford described the move as realigning company packaging to reflect “the foundation and heart of our company culture"

[pasayten]

[tristanbgilb]

I think with capitol "YOU" you are trying to mean like the ultimate respect of calling someone Mystro in proper spanish. When I Am wanting to do that I call someone "Jah". I could for instance say, "Jah that was great how you treated your mom". It is pronounced close to "ya" and no one ever seems to notice around here my slights of tongue but it does have meaning.

Jah short for Jehovah whom some think is the creator but I am uncertain ALL the same the highest spirit I have contact with.

[tristanbgilb]

That is interesting... Thanks for explaining that... I kind of like that... I may do something similar...

To honor and repect your spiritual connection, may I also use YOU (all caps) to refer to YOU in formal written communications? Or somehow use I?

I use the pronoun "U" only for woman who is to follow her husband.
This is referring to the fall of Adam in Genesis because he was led by his wife to disobey God.
A "U" is to be more innocent like the Ewe sheep and "I" AM to be the shepherd as a servant of Christ who is "ALL" lamb and shepherd.
I am not easily offended by the words you call me as long as respect is honored.

For me, you would also call me "I" as "I" might call usted "I".
"YOU" is still recognizing a disconnection from yourself from me where "I" we are one and equal.
When "I" is "ALL" I=III
ALL represents the trinity.

[pasayten]

That is interesting... Thanks for explaining that... I have seen that in your writings... Brings deeper meaning...
How would that be expressed in verbal communications?

I kind of like that... I may do something similar...

To honor and repect your spiritual connection, may I also use YOU (all caps) to refer to YOU in formal written communications? Or somehow use I?

[tristanbgilb]

I have two personal pronouns I use in everyday conversation that no one in the Methow Valley has ever commented on or even seem to notice this slight in pronunciation. "I" is plural when I am speaking informally; "i" is singular. "i" refers to myself as flesh animal with a sense of individual identity. "I" is referring to myself as connected to the holy spirit without a sense of disconnection from God and others around me. If I refer to a friend as "I" it is meant to honor the holy spirit I recognize in them. If I call a friend "i" perhaps I am seeing them as less than holy or even toxic at times.

[pasayten]

So, I guess the first thing we should do when we meet someone is ask them what their pronouns are...

https://www.facebook.com/reel/768633064822855?fs=e&s=m

I appreciate the logic and grace of the last person...

...and now we have Neopronouns coming into play...

Neopronouns are a category of new (neo) pronouns that are increasingly used in place of “she,” “he,” or “they” when referring to a person. Some examples include: xe/xem/xyr, ze/hir/hirs, and ey/em/eir.

[pasayten]

Duh... I know there have been unisex bathrooms for many years... Also many more with the traditional men and women designations... Never seen a them/they one yet...

For many nonbinary people, using either the women’s or the men’s restroom might feel unsafe, because others may verbally harass them or even physically attack them. Nonbinary people should be able to use the restroom that they believe they will be safest in.

This is where I have a problem... especially having raised daughters... If my daughter walk into and used the womens bathroom, she should expect it to be a penis free zone to feel safe... Where does her feeling of safety and comfort come into play?

Maybe we should just rename bathrooms biologically and forget the whole pronoun thing... "penis", "vagina", and "either"... most bathrooms in the western world are designed and built for a quantity of persons to use at the same time based on sanitary and biological parameters. I know that more single use "either" bathrooms will be built in the future... but that will be awhile though...

[Fun CH]

I haven't seen any Them restrooms yet... Which one do They choose?

There are restrooms that are public without any designation as to sex. Been that way on public transportation for a long time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/08/styl ... ender.html

"In All-Gender Restrooms, the Signs Reflect the Times"

And from the link I posted about respect.

"Understand that, for many nonbinary people, navigating gendered spaces - like bathrooms - can be challenging. For many nonbinary people, using either the women’s or the men’s restroom might feel unsafe, because others may verbally harass them or even physically attack them. Nonbinary people should be able to use the restroom that they believe they will be safest in. You can help support nonbinary people by accepting their judgment about where they feel most comfortable when dealing with spaces that are based on binary gender distinctions. "

I can understand the harresement issue in public spaces such as being harassed for being a snowmobiler at the EW parking lot. Although my situation is not as dangerous because political hate makes some folks a target, no one desires to be harressed for any reason.

[pasayten]

Not upset... just unneeded extra confusion...

I remember my old German classes... Der, Die, Das... Similar to He, She, and It

German it was Das Boat... English we refer to boats as She... That was enough confusion for me.

I haven't seen any Them restrooms yet... Which one do They choose?

[Fun CH]

Ray, I can't understand why you are so upset about this. If you don't understand the meaning of a word, look it up. But at least you are bringing awareness to this as the Republican legislatures target people who don't fit into their mold.

"Understanding Nonbinary People: How to Be Respectful and Supportive
JANUARY 12, 2023
Nonbinary Defined
Most people – including most transgender people – are either male or female. But some people don't neatly fit into the categories of "man" or "woman," or “male” or “female.” For example, some people have a gender that blends elements of being a man or a woman, or a gender that is different than either male or female. Some people don't identify with any gender. Some people's gender changes over time.



People whose gender is not male or female use many different terms to describe themselves, with nonbinary being one of the most common (sometimes spelled with a hyphen, as “non-binary”). Other terms include genderqueer, agender, bigender, genderfluid, and more. None of these terms mean exactly the same thing – but all speak to an experience of gender that is not simply male or female. If you’re not sure what a word means, you can usually just ask politely. "

https://transequality.org/issues/resour ... supportive

[just-jim]

.
Outside of how you feel about it - and I think David is right - the pronoun thing can be confusing.
.
Just for some levity….I did see a pretty good pun:

Q. What pronouns does Chocolate use?

A. Her/She
.

[pasayten]

I do have close gay friends... But no they/them friends... I was reading a news article about a shooting... the article said "when they shot the victim"... the shooter was a a single non-binary person... How confusing is that???

Ridiculous... Do they "each" get their own trial???

Maybe "it" would be better... Good grief... just pick a singular pronoun...

[mister_coffee]

I'll never understand what the g*dd*mn fuss is about. People are different. There are lots of ways to be human. Some of those ways might seem weird to you or make you uncomfortable. That doesn't make you a bad person but it also doesn't mean you aren't obligated to be kind or tolerant of their differences.

Like a lot of stuff on the boob tube, in that show they obviously chose people and encouraged them to use language that would make their audience as uncomfortable as possible. And also make it easier for the intolerant and cruel to condemn and other trans people.

I've known several trans folks over the course of my life, and with all of them you'd never know unless they told you. One of them has been a lifelong friend and I've known her over forty years. I would never have known her story unless she told me, and I'd known her over five years when she finally did. And none of the trans people I knew would have ever harmed another human, and bluntly if I were to describe them as a group they were the least belligerent and aggressive class of people I've ever met.

Why should anybody else care what pronouns someone wants to use for themselves? What exactly is the problem? And yes, it might reflect a change of language, but we all know that language evolves over time. Just read some Shakespeare or Chaucer if you don't believe me.

[pasayten]

Not really a Dr. Phil fan, but found the pronoun issue interesting...
Especially the use of they/them which to me is totally needless and confusing to me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HgOeTvxv00