Hey folks we're not in a recession

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Rideback
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by Rideback »

No one is denying there's inflation going on. But that does NOT mean we're in a recession. And while you're at it, inflation is coming from the corporate gougers so retrain that finger you keep pointing to start pointing towards the real reason.
dorankj
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by dorankj »

I guess we’re just doing great then, thank you for telling me things. I sometimes get confused when I actually see what’s going on around me and in the world.
Rideback
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by Rideback »

Thank you. Just tired of seeing the two conflated so that it becomes a bumper sticker talking point.
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mister_coffee
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by mister_coffee »

Not only does inflation not equal recession, but under normal conditions you won’t ever have both at the same time.

Recession means that aggregate demand is dropping.

Inflation means that aggregate supply exceeds aggregate demand.

So on the average an economic boom has more inflationary pressure than a recession. Recessions are on the average deflationary.
:arrow: David Bonn :idea:
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by Rideback »

Ken seems to be arguing (it is hard to tell) that curbing the rampant price gouging that BigOil, Big Pharma and all the way across the board of businesses that are driving inflation by price gouging to not just recoup losses from Trump's covid, but to plump up their bottom line is anti capitalism and so must surely lead to govt control of all businesses which he'd like to call socialism and quit the conversation.

Just one of many problems with that is that when the norm of competition that drives pricing to a balance is not longer actively in play, the gougers are running the field. In order to put them back into balance the govt must act, not just to be mean to the poor bad actors, but to represent the people. The action needs to be policies & laws that create monetary and more punishment for price gouging. Full stop. We've seen this on similar scales when Louisiana put price gouging penalties in place after Hurrican Katrina and likewise with other natural catastrophes. The Gov of Kentucky is doing likewise now because the severe flooding has displaced so many people they are easy targets.

So, there's no extremes here, taming the gougers does not mean we'll all wake up tomorrow to a communist or even socialist state, it simply means this is a moment where we're not in a traditional recession but we are seeing inflation and that inflation is driven by price gougers and it can be fixed by govt intervention that will pinpoint the troublemakers and make it economically uncomfortable for them to continue.

And btw Ken, inflation does not equal recession. It's an element of a recession yes, but a recession has a whole lot more working parts.
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pasayten
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by pasayten »

pasayten wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:42 am I am looking forward to Ken's "COVID was used to remove a President and to purposely change the economy" conspiracy theory... :-)
Still waiting Ken...
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Ray Peterson
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by PAL »

"Most reasonable people" Ha. What do you know about most reasonable people? It is, it is, the corporations that are the problem but people must believe these corporations care about them and will take care of them. You generalize, when you say "most reasonable people."
Who are they? Jim Jordon, Cruz, Hawley, Mitch, to name a few. Orange one is off the charts.
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by Rideback »

you might want to read your post and do some editing, it's not doing your arguments any favors the way it is now.
dorankj
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by dorankj »

You guys think you can’t put words in my mouth and I’ll have to choke on them, I’ve never indicated Trump is ANY sort of savior (only Jesus holds that place in my heart). I’m citing the nonsense of the title of this post and the ridiculous articles trying to re-invent the reality most of us see. Biden is obviously a horrible Pres. every poll shows that, even most reasonable dems say that. You can attack and mock me on this little BB and I suppose you need to justify your poor positions and failed outcomes but it’s not going to make it true for most reasonable people.

(Sure, one small typo ruins my whole point, sure)
Last edited by dorankj on Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pasayten
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

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I am looking forward to Ken's "COVID was used to remove a President and to purposely change the economy" conspiracy theory... :-)
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by PAL »

Hey Ya'll,
Ken cannot grasp what you are talking about. He uses the phrases but cannot get past seeing the Orange one as the savior of our country. Or maybe Mitch, Jordon, Hawley, Cruz as our saviors.
I know why we battle with him, because he is spouting off alot of misinformation. He has a right to his opinions, misguided as we think they are, but they are his.
I do think Covid affected his reasoning. These are some of the long term affects.
The posts of articles about inflation and the facts posted are correct. Can't argue with the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Of course Ken will.
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just-jim
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by just-jim »

dorankj wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:26 pm I’m sure the best answer is to just have the all trustworthy, well organized and efficient government run everything! Your blather is really just irrelevant, government involvement and regulation and spending (increasing the money supply with no matching economic growth) is to blame. We can all remember just 18 months ago when the same corporations and corporate greed had completely different prices and economics, what changed? An inept and clueless administration! Sorry that doesn’t comport with your politics and hatred of one President but we can all see it every day and no amount of gaslighting and irrelevant partisan articles that pretend things aren’t as bad as they are. Face it, Biden and the dems in charge are far worse than Carter and the 70s!
GDP growth (annual rates) since Ford…

Ford 3.1% x4 yr
Carter 3.4% x4 yr
Reagan 3.4% x 8 yr
Bush1 2.0% x 4 yr
Clinton 3.7% x 8 yr
Bush2 1.8% x 8 yr
Obama 2.1% x 8 yr
orange jailbird a$$hat 1.6% x 4 yr. THE WORST SINCE HERBERT HOOVER, 85 YEARS EARLIER!!
Biden 4% x1 yr - thru 1st quarter 2022.

From: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... depression
Directly quoting the US Bureau of Economic Analysis.

See a pattern here, Ken?

Since I doubt you know the difference between monetary and fiscal policy, and use terms like “increasing money supply”, without really understanding what that is, please explain this: guilty donnie added almost $ EIGHT TRILLION to the National Debt with his tax cuts - according to most economists. That is about 1/4 of ALL the debt now on the US books. Hmmmmm? Quick now, Ken….did THAT increase ‘money supply’?

Since Reagan, the ‘supply siders’ have been arguing for less tax, less regulation, less government, etc etc. And income tax rates, capital gains tax rates, and business tax rates have dropped and dropped all those years. What’s happened? More wealth in the hands of a smaller and smaller number of people.

This simply can not continue in any country that purports to be an economic, as well as a political, democracy. ‘Eat the rich’ may not be just some esoteric slogan….

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pasayten
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by pasayten »

dorankj wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:11 pm COVID was used to remove a President and to purposely change the economy! Big difference.
What??? A new conspiracy theory? This should be interesting...
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by dorankj »

COVID was used to remove a President and to purposely change the economy! Big difference.
Rideback
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by Rideback »

Covid changed the economy, as both the articles point out and to make up for the downturn in demand because people weren't driving, eating out, weren't working, were sick - supply chains dried up, corporations lost money, so to make up for the losses the result is price gouging. The proof is the enormous profits that are being posted by corporate America, not just oil but a wide spectrum.
dorankj
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by dorankj »

I’m sure the best answer is to just have the all trustworthy, well organized and efficient government run everything! Your blather is really just irrelevant, government involvement and regulation and spending (increasing the money supply with no matching economic growth) is to blame. We can all remember just 18 months ago when the same corporations and corporate greed had completely different prices and economics, what changed? An inept and clueless administration! Sorry that doesn’t comport with your politics and hatred of one President but we can all see it every day and no amount of gaslighting and irrelevant partisan articles that pretend things aren’t as bad as they are. Face it, Biden and the dems in charge are far worse than Carter and the 70s!
Rideback
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by Rideback »

'SCRIPT AND SOURCES
Inflation! Inflation! Everyone’s talking about it, but ignoring one of its biggest causes: corporate concentration.

Now, prices are undeniably rising.

In response, the Fed is about to slow the economy — even though we’re still at least 4 million jobs short of where we were before the pandemic, and millions of American workers won’t get the raises they deserve.

Republicans haven’t wasted any time hammering Biden and Democratic lawmakers about inflation.

Everybody’s ignoring the deeper structural reason for price increases: the concentration of the American economy into the hands of a few corporate giants with the power to raise prices.

If the market were actually competitive, corporations would keep their prices as low as possible as they competed for customers.

Even if some of their costs increased, they would do everything they could to avoid passing them on to consumers in the form of higher prices, for fear of losing business to competitors.

But that’s the opposite of what we’re seeing.

Corporations are raising prices even as they rake in record profits.

Corporate profit margins hit record highs last year.

You see, these corporations have so much market power they can raise prices with impunity.

So the underlying problem isn’t inflation per se. It's a lack of competition. Corporations are using the excuse of inflation to raise prices and make fatter profits.

Take the energy sector.

Only a few entities have access to the land and pipelines that control the oil and gas powering most of the world.

They took a hit during the pandemic as most people stayed home.

But they are more than making up for it now, limiting supply and ratcheting up prices.

Warren: “Chevron, Exxon have doubled their profits. This isn’t about inflation. This is about price gouging.”

Or look at consumer goods.

In April 2021, Procter & Gamble raised prices on staples like diapers and toilet paper, citing increased costs in raw materials and transportation.

But P&G has been making huge profits.

After some of its price increases went into effect, it reported an almost 25% profit margin.

Looking to buy your diapers elsewhere? Good luck.

The market is dominated by P&G and Kimberly-Clark, which—NOT entirely coincidentally—raised its prices at the same time.

Another example: in April 2021, PepsiCo raised prices, blaming higher costs for ingredients, freight, and labor.

It then recorded $3 billion in operating profits through September. How did it get away with this without losing customers?

Pepsi has only one major competitor, Coca-Cola, which promptly raised its own prices.

Coca-Cola recorded $10 billion in revenues in the third quarter of 2021, up 16% from the previous year.

Food prices are soaring, but half of that is from meat, which costs 15% more than last year. There are only four major meat processing companies in America, which are all raising their prices and enjoying record profits.

Get the picture?

The underlying problem is not inflation. It’s corporate power.

Since the 1980s, when the U.S. government all but abandoned antitrust enforcement, American industries have become more concentrated.

Most are now dominated by a handful of corporations that coordinate prices and production. This is true of: banks, broadband, pharmaceutical companies, airlines, meatpackers, and yes, soda.

Corporations in all these industries could easily absorb higher costs — including long overdue wage increases — without passing them on to consumers in the form of higher prices. But they aren’t.

Instead, they’re using their massive profits to line the pockets of major investors and executives – while both consumers and workers get shafted.

How can this structural problem be fixed? Fighting corporate concentration with more aggressive antitrust enforcement.

Biden has asked the Federal Trade Commission to investigate oil companies, and he’s appointed experienced antitrust lawyers to both the FTC and the Justice Department.

So don’t fall for Republicans’ fear mongering about inflation. The real culprit here is corporate power. (Robert Reich)
dorankj
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by dorankj »

It’s only “irrelevant” to those desperate for us all to forget how wrong they are. The rest of us in reality find it extremely relevant!
Rideback
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by Rideback »

Irrelevant, as the article explains.
dorankj
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Re: Hey folks we're not in a recession

Post by dorankj »

But it’s not “transitory”? Was that just last excuse? You guys are really unbelievable.
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