Roe vs. Wade

[dorankj]

I have read them and really they’re not very compelling. They loosely try to link innocent mis-carriages (something no-one supports prosecution and I don’t believe will happen) and actual harmful behavior by the mother (yes, taking meth while pregnant IS harmful to the baby, just like after birth). Two different issues and yes different people in different states may handle them differently (again, democracy).

[Rideback]

That's a lazy answer. Every link, every quote, every example argues for the reality that miscarriages and stillborn births are already being looked at as crimes. Come back after you've read the links and quotes in the article and stop with the opinions until you do. If you want a discussion, use links to actual research not useless opinions.

[dorankj]

Awe, you’re a special one! You think NPR doesn’t lie and doesn’t have their own agenda to promote. They are literally government propaganda, I'm sure they’ll change their name to Pravda soon.

[Rideback]

Miscarriages and stillborn births count!
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/03/11090153 ... nancy-loss

[PAL]

Ken, in some states miscarriage could be misconstrued as a woman having an abortion. Oh yes, they are watching. But women will prevail, let me tell you.
"I don't think". I couldn't help myself.

[Rideback]

haha, sounds like you're getting a little bit sensitive and overworked. My my.

[dorankj]

I had 3 people to respond to and I did, are you for real?

[Rideback]

PAL from his responses it looks like you may be on to something! His whole conversation now seems to be word salads and distractions, jumping wildly from one non sensical talking point to another. Actually kind of fun to watch him bounce around.

[dorankj]

Well, many women (above 80%) DO have an abortion for convenience or because they’re ‘not ready’. Do men and women get to decide what the punishment is for a mother who kills her child that is 2 months old? So that’s a dumb argument too!

What does having a mis-carriage have to do with whether or not it was a baby? You guys with your euphemisms, mis-definitions and excuses to try and remove your guilt for obvious evil! Let’s not kill innocent humans, pretty simple.

PAL, you’re just so clever! Whatever

[PAL]

Ken, you use, "I don't think" alot I've noticed. Subliminal? Meaning you don't think?

[mister_coffee]

How does it “might become” a baby? I don’t think you understand science!

Um, ten to twenty percent of pregnancies end with miscarriages, and if the miscarriage occurs before a certain time the conceptus never becomes a baby. Where the exact line is is rather fuzzy and subject to debate.

The interesting thing about miscarriages is under the new regime in many states, any of those miscarriages could potentially be a crime. I guess the police are going to be awful busy sorting that out...

[SharonLaVonne]

Ken, you don't get it. What makes you think getting an abortion is something women just do for the heck of it? It is a serious decision and Guess What? It is not yours to make. So tired of "so called" Christians and their attitudes toward women. That's right, no woman has been spontaneously made pregnant since the "Virgin Mary" - who of course, gave birth to a man to was a apparently the almighty Savior of the world. There-in lies the built -in crux of some men's belief that they are superior and get to make choices that are NOT their to make.

[dorankj]

How does it “might become” a baby? I don’t think you understand science!

[dorankj]

I don’t think you understand federalism.

[PAL]

Calm down, my a..
Hey and what about all those frozen embryos, thousands of them in freezers, waiting to be implanted. Some probably get thawed out and never make it.
Abortion choice is not a whim.
There are at least 80 corporations helping women to cross state lines if need be, for health care choices and abortion, For once I applaud the power of the corporations. They are forging ahead despite the laws. They may force the issue, so there will be court cases.
Also, a 10 yr. old girl in Ohio was raped and then it was discovered she was 6 wks. and 3 days pregnant and it was too late, according to the arcane, backwards law of Ohio for her to get an abortion. But she was transported to Indiana where it was still legal. Not for long.
These are the kinds of things the Supreme Court did not take into account or the states.
Democracy, right, when the majority of Americans thought the Court should not overturn Roe v Wade. The majority in a democracy, not the minority, get that?

[mister_coffee]

You took this long to come up with that? You’re such a nutball! I’m sure you’re really convincing people that we should keep letting babies be killed on a whim with this nonsense reasoning.

It is not a baby at fifteen weeks. It is a collection of cells that might become a baby.

[dorankj]

I guess I would recommend you not move to those states if you don’t like it. Sometimes your fellow citizens don’t make the choices you would like (kinda like the last 49 years of Roe!) Democracies can be tough.

[Rideback]

Answer the question. Pro life states have already made their laws, they don't take into consideration women with cancer who are undergoing treatment that will affect a fetus or a baby.

You can't dodge this one, today women are facing what the Dobbs case is going to do to their lives, it's not an abstract, it's real for them.

[dorankj]

Calm down.

[Rideback]

That's not good enough. And you can't dodge the question. Individual states are not addressing the cancer aspect, read the article, women and their fetuses will die, babies will be impacted if not killed. This has to be addressed at every level and the medical community is being hung out to dry. Show me one pro life state that has even taken this into consideration.

[dorankj]

Like SCOTUS said, each state will decide through their representatives who create law, you know democracy!

[Rideback]

You're not addressing reality. How does your pro life 'kill no babies' stance address women who have cancer? Read my link

[dorankj]

You took this long to come up with that? You’re such a nutball! I’m sure you’re really convincing people that we should keep letting babies be killed on a whim with this nonsense reasoning.

[mister_coffee]

Your fingernails will never be a separate being with individual DNA! (don’t you think of yourself as a ‘man of science’?)
...

My fingernails have complete copies of my DNA and typically have quite a a few living cells still in them. In theory (if not yet in practice) any of those cells could be cloned and made into a copy of me. So maybe after cloning technology is perfected will we outlaw clipping fingernails?

Now when you talk about individual DNA, what about identical twins? Since they have identical DNA are they just one person or two? So if a pair of identical twins get married to two different people is it bigamy? Or if they marry the same person is it not polygamy because they are just one person?

You can make this really simple if you just refuse to think about it and sloganeer.

[Rideback]

Cancer clinics and hospitals are weighing in on how the Dobbs opinion will affect treatment for women with cancer. The choices are grim but this is the reality women have always had to make with their doctors.
https://cancerletter.com/the-cancer-letter/20220701_1/