What are we doing?

[PAL]

Abbott was also muttering something about Chicago, comparing deaths in Chicago to the deaths on Texas. Something like Chicago has more.
I was stunned at what he said. Comparing, when people are in deep pain.
He has the mental health problem. He'll probably wet himself being able to stand with Trumpie.

[Rideback]

What I simply hadn't acknowledged, until this morning when it was pointed out that the reason the children in TX must be Id'd by DNA is because the assault weapons literally destroy a body, they don't look like Mikey's cartoon of how many bullet holes are in the sign, instead the blasts were so powerful they turned the children's bodies into jelly. I'm still trying to process that one.

David, what your article is missing is a view from 30,000 feet of the role of the NRA, much like other BigCapital corporations in the US have on our politics. Thanks to the Roberts' SCOTUS the law of the land is that money, not from individual voters, but from giant corporations & PACs run by the richest of the rich.

That's translated into access for things like gun manufacturers who have been so successful we now have 400 million guns in a country of just over 300 million. And none of their lobbying has been for the betterment of the people. If they were to stop pouring $ into the coffers of the Reps this minute, they wouldn't send $ to the Dems yet the Reps would still kow tow to bidding. Why? Well, probably because the NRA has taught the Rep base to listen up so they are a tool for Rep politicians. It's quid quo pro in the largest sense possible.

I see Greg Abbott is telling every microphone he can find that the shooting was because the community has a 'mental health problem'. He must be warming up for his speech standing with Trump in front of the NRA crowd.

[mister_coffee]

A view from outside our bubble:

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/opinion/artic ... 29_23.html

[mister_coffee]

I constructively suggest a legal, peaceful protest directly in front of a local business selling firearms.

[Rideback]

Sorry
March For Our Lives
https://marchforourlives.com/

[PAL]

March for Life is anti abortion, however.

[Rideback]

Organizers in the valley have always been so good about putting the marches together, I can't imagine they'll miss on this one. I'm keeping track so will post if I see it set.

[PAL]

Well Ray, it's entertaining!
Thanks Rideback for that info. Unfortunately I work that day, but maybe can trade with someone if the Valley has one.

[Rideback]

March for Life group is organizing a national event & march for June 11. This is a major group and they are in the midst of making a series of events happen. You can google MarchForLife and sign up or just keep an eye on the page as there isn't a march set up yet for the valley.

[pasayten]

And he should be put in an assisted living facility that can care for his needs, no food that he might choke on.

Don't need any food for a few months as I can live on my fat reserves...

Sorry members for the off topic replies...

[mister_coffee]

Schumer has said today he will bring several of the House gun reform Bills to the floor. He knows he won't see passage but he also recognizes that it's important in the overall work to get Rep's on the record. There is some optimism that Collins, Murkowski and even Romney may peel away if there isn't an all out assault weapons ban in the ask. Stricter background checks are on the table.

So David, are you saying to give up on getting voting to get a stronger majority in both the Senate & the House? That doesn't work for me.

...

I think your first paragraph sums up why so many Americans are viscerally repulsed by our politics. Kids shot dead in classrooms is a serious problem, not an abstract token in some game. Of course it would be nice to get a stronger majority in the Senate and the House, but we've had lots of good people trying political channels on the firearms problem for years. I laud those people and actually sometimes even give them money, but it isn't like I've seen them produce any results.

The way you will stop this problem is by inflicting pain on the people who are enabling this problem and profiting from it. Inflict enough pain and there will be sufficient motivation to address the problem. The political tar baby doesn't inflict that pain and produces no incentives, beyond basic decency, to address this issue. Obviously basic decency is insufficient motivation.

[Rideback]

Schumer has said today he will bring several of the House gun reform Bills to the floor. He knows he won't see passage but he also recognizes that it's important in the overall work to get Rep's on the record. There is some optimism that Collins, Murkowski and even Romney may peel away if there isn't an all out assault weapons ban in the ask. Stricter background checks are on the table.

So David, are you saying to give up on getting voting to get a stronger majority in both the Senate & the House? That doesn't work for me.

Since we now have 400 millions guns in the US I'd be in favor of having a tax on ammunition where that tax went to support for families of the victims. Of course I'd like to see that tax be somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 per bullet but I'll admit to being over the line...maybe.

Contrary to what Ted Cruz said today, the answer isn't more guns or even more security at schools. There was security in Buffalo and that guard gave his life up trying to save the neighborhood customers. The 18 year old yesterday was determined to kill in an elementary school. He & the Buffalo 18 yr old wore body armour. Yesterday's shooter used his assault weapon, even a fast response by security and local law enforcement couldn't protect the school kids and teachers. Kids won't be protected until Ted Cruz is ousted and assault weapons are taken out of the hands of these monsters.

[dorankj]

Well, since it’s ok to diagnose others here based only on posts, I have determined Ray suffers from dementia and Alzheimer’s (is that why he likes Biden?) As such, all oversight of this board must be transferred to a competent person, his car keys must be removed immediately (if you see him driving please call the police for his and your safety). And he should be put in an assisted living facility that can care for his needs, no food that he might choke on. Since you all mostly feel society must pay for everyone’s every need, I will contribute to Ray’s care and needs to keep him safe (is that caring enough?)

[PAL]

David, I like your approach of demonstrating and taking action in a good way. But who can be an organizer of a nationwide demo such as this?
Perhaps it should be presented to the Women's March Foundation. Hmm. Maybe if I find the time I'll email them.

Rideback great points. I blame Mitch McConnel for alot of these deaths, some members of the GOP, and the NRA. They are not protecting the born.
All they care about is how much money the NRA gives them.

Ken you are worthless in this discussion. Present a possible solution.

Schools should have the same security as the airports, yes. Why not? It's come to that.

[realoldtimer]

Laws and purchase requirements won't stop a person intent on buying a gun. It isn't that hard to buy a gun even in a rural valley.

Enacting All the legislation conceivable won't protect folks, especially kids, from a focused shooter.

Is the answer to shoot the shooter before they can kill? Or shoot many? It seems to be what needs to happen. Sad, but true, I think.

I know many people with CPL's who do carry a pistol almost all the time, even in Twisp.

I know a number of armed people who have taken courses about how to deal with an active shooter in various situations - at the 'mall' , in church, other social scenes.

Is the answer to have armed guards in every vulnerable place. Is that even possible?

A focused attacker, who wants to injure, shoot, stab, kill will find ways to do it. That person, IMHO, needs to be removed from society. EOS

[dorankj]

WTF Ray! Now you’re a psychologist? I have no fear whatsoever of obese people, I feel sorry for them because I see every day in my job the difficulty, suffering and often eventual death from so many consequences of the nearly completely preventable malady. Take your BS and use it on someone else jerk!

[pasayten]

You have to realize that Ken is cacomorphobic... It is a common thread in many of his posts...

Cacomorphobes are terrified of fat or obese people; they simply cannot control the terror they experience around such individuals. They often realize that they are being judgmental (often downright mean), and yet they are unable to control the panic attacks they experience at the mere thought or sight of fat people. The phobic might also realize that weight has got nothing to do with a person’s nature. Still, s/he is unable to control the negative thoughts or feeling of dread, revulsion or anxiety around one. Cacomorphobia is a relatievly rare phobia, the intensity of which varies from individual to individual.

https://pasayten.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p ... bese#p5386
https://pasayten.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p ... bese#p2412
https://pasayten.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p ... bese#p2252
https://pasayten.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p ... bese#p2156
https://pasayten.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p ... bese#p2021

[mister_coffee]

How long will that take? How many dead kids before that laudable vision comes to pass?

I think a militant and non-violent anti-firearm group would be an excellent chess piece to add to the board. You could generously borrow the less egregious tactics the anti-abortion protestors have refined over the last four decades. Given that those tactics have been litigated to a T you would be on very clearly safe legal ground, often established by the same people you are protesting against. And like I said, if you make gun shops a bad business proposition you will make firearms less available through the magic of the free market.

Bluntly you are dreaming if you think you are going to get a strong enough majority in the House and Senate to pass effective firearms legislation.

[Rideback]

No. As ex Republican Joe Scarborough said this morning (after years of blaming both parties) ' I can't do this anymore. This isn't about the inaction of the 2 parties, this is solely a Republican problem. For years the Dem House passed gun reform laws only to watch Mitch McConnell refuse to even let them come to the floor. Senate Rep's have been blocking ALL attempts at gun reform for decades now. They aren't going to change. Vote them out of office.'

Since Sandy Hook and then Parkland there's been a groundswell of people trying to get reform to happen. They've spoken at huge rallies, they have lobbied Congress, they have pleaded with Americans relentlessly and the polls have shown a huge uptick in Americans wanting reform. But the NRA has given huge $ into the coffers of the Rep party, which is kind of strange when you think about it. If they stopped giving $ would the Rep's revert to gun control? Nope.

The part of pro life just demonstrated that they are not prolife. Again, like Sandy Hook, these were little kids, innocent babes.

There is only one way to get gun control reform to happen, replace the Rep's who obstruct it with Dems who offer common sense gun control to protect children, elderly shopping in the grocery stores, people inside their church...

[mister_coffee]

C'mon Ken, you disappoint me.

So if I eat a monster greasy meal at Denny's that somehow causes 19 kids to die?

And we have protested dangerous vehicles in the past, and had protests about drunk driving.

Keep in mind that firearms are devices designed to kill. You can easily make a distinction between an accidental an intentional property of an object.

If you don't like the idea, nobody will force you to protest at gunpoint.

[dorankj]

I think you have something here, I think we should all protest the car companies when a drunk driver kills people. We should all picket restaurants for the carnage of obesity. Why is this one issue the only one where one side instantly blames the object? Imagine how crazy it would sound if after 9/11 one political party proposed banning all planes or just big planes or fast planes. Evil will always find ways to commit evil, maybe we should protect our kids as well as we protect our money? At least!

[mister_coffee]

What is the direct action? Shooting the shooters before they kill the kids? That was Trump's recommendation.
...

That is a thought, but not in the way you are considering it.

My first thought was these kooks buy their guns somewhere. And we inevitably find out where they purchased them in the aftermath of a horror like this. So why aren't people picketing that gun shop? Most gun shops aren't very profitable businesses and any level of public protest in front of a business is going to drive customers away. This puts a risk on businesses selling weapons to murderers that if they sell to the wrong customer they could lose their business. Is that fair to the business owner? Probably not. But nothing that happened yesterday was fair to the 19 kids or families. This isn't about fairness. This about stopping, or at least slowing down, the slaughter as fast and dirty as you need to.

My other thought is that a nationwide sit-down strike should be organized. One day a week, people should pull their kids out of school, people should stay home from work, and people should refuse to patronize any business. I was thinking we should do this after every mass shooting but if we did that everybody would just stay home all the time. This would put indirect pressure on public officials to solve or at least mitigate this problem.

[PAL]

What is the direct action? Shooting the shooters before they kill the kids? That was Trump's recommendation.
I sure don't know what can be done about it. People certainly aren't going to give up their AK whatevers.
Education? Again, the book, "Gunfight", every high school kid and parents should read. They would learn about how the NRA has strayed from their original platform.
Nah, I think it's a pretty hopeless situation. Perhaps hyper-vigilance around schools? They are hyper about driving by them too fast. A ticket real quick.

[mister_coffee]

The truly depressing and infuriating thing about this is that it happens, over and over, and we seem incapable of doing anything about it.

My own personal belief is that elected officials have had plenty of chances to fix this problem, and they have failed. That leaves direct action by concerned citizens as the only solution.

[PAL]

NRA, one of the most powerful gun lobbies in the US. Read the book, "Gunfight"(Google it and it's in the library). The author is a former salesman for a gun manufacturer and describes what the NRA has become. They are not what they used to be.
The book should be required reading for every person to understand what has happened. The author loves guns, but does not love the NRA.
And I expect to see this happening over and over again. There should be no problem with background checks. Of course, the killing will still continue.
You do know, that our society and other societies are in the midst of collapse. Read about collapse(I know you have). Books like "Global Insanity", and "The Five Stages of Collapse" are very interesting reads and give some insight on what is happening.
Mom Nature is going to have alot to say too in all of this. This is not doom and gloom. This is the reality.