next wave

[mister_coffee]

Actually cases in Okanogan County and Washington State overall are declining right now.

This is probably due to either fairly high levels of vaccination in some places (e.g. Seattle, Port Townsend, San Juan Islands) or high levels of delta having overran the population (most of eastern Washington).

How this will all change when/if omicron takes off all remains to be seen.

[Fun CH]

"COVID-19 anti-vaxxers use the same arguments from 135 years ago"

"As a historian of medicine, it’s become clear from researching the history of vaccines that those who promote anti-vaccination consistently use a standard set of strategies. Although it can be hard to see patterns of argument in the modern context, looking back at a historical instance of epidemic and misinformation provides a useful case study for revealing today’s recurring anti-vaccination strategies.

One popular pamphlet published in 1885 during the smallpox epidemic in Montréal is a great example. Over a century later, we have the benefit of living in a world that has eradicated smallpox using a vaccine. Yet in the past, smallpox vaccination was hotly contested, despite the evidence in favour of its effectiveness."


https://theconversation.com/covid-19-an ... ago-145592

[Fun CH]

"Baylor health sues COVID-19 vaccine skeptic and demands Dallas doctor stop using its name
Dr. Peter McCullough denies claiming to be affiliated with Baylor Scott & White since leaving in February; says lawsuit attempts to silence him for unpopular beliefs."

"McCullough’s “improper use of titles and claimed affiliations,” the lawsuit says, have confused the media, the medical community and the public."

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/courts/ ... -its-name/

[woodman]

Here is a balanced, well informed perspective from Dr. McCullough. A lot of people don't want to hear it though. At 22:30 it is mentioned that risks from jab is 27X higher than the risk from natural immunity to Covid. I think I heard this same figure echoed by someone else on this BB.

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/dr-peter ... cAcTc.html

[dorankj]

A large elderly population, obesity levels. Those are 2 very big risk factors!

[Fun CH]

The US makes up 5% of the world's population, but has progressed to being the country with the biggest numbers of Covid cases at 25% of the total. How can that be?

lack of early gov pandemic responce, fauci telling us we didn't need masks, lack of availability of n95 masks, misinformation, disinformation, anti mask movement, anti vaxxer movement, a society that favors individualism, lack of trust in government, lack of trust in big Pharma, access to medical care inequities, vaccine distribution inequities.

[woodman]

The US makes up 5% of the world's population, but has progressed to being the country with the biggest numbers of Covid cases at 25% of the total. How can that be?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czu11HmhfAY

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/tlav-cir ... KkZMD.html

[Fun CH]

^people really need to seek medical advice from their personal Physicians.

I remember a member here posting that an emergency room doctor that he knows recommended taking horse wormer to combat Covid 19. Well that's just hersay. Like Nicki Minaj's friend who knows someone who claims that theirs nether regions swelled up from the covid vaccine. All just unverifiable hearsay.

And then there are these guys she can get profit from the pandemic by spreading misinformation.

Boston Globe headline

"In the last three months, five conservative talk show hosts have died from COVID"

"Over the last few months, no less than five conservative radio talk show hosts who urged their audiences to avoid vaccines for COVID-19 have died from the virus.
By Kevin Cullen Globe Columnist,Updated October 21, 2021

"Phil Valentine's brother said the conservative radio host regretted not encouraging his listeners to get vaccinated, and that he would have done so if he had managed to get back on the air. He died of COVID in August. "

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/21/ ... -audience/

[pasayten]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_f ... s_websites (beforeitsnews)
Cited by U.S. President Donald Trump at his 2016 campaign rallies. Before It's News and InfoWars were described as "unabashedly unhinged 'news' sites" in 2014 by The Washington Post


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Coleman
Vernon Coleman (born 18 May 1946) is an English conspiracy theorist, anti-vaccination activist, AIDS denialist, blogger and novelist who writes on topics related to human health, politics and animal issues.

Coleman's medical claims have been widely discredited and described as pseudoscientific. He was formerly a newspaper columnist and general practitioner (GP).


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/brand-new-tube/ (conspiracy-pseudoscience)
Sources in the Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category may publish unverifiable information that is not always supported by evidence. These sources may be untrustworthy for credible/verifiable information, therefore fact checking and further investigation is recommended on a per article basis when obtaining information from these sources. See all Conspiracy-Pseudoscience sources.

In conclusion, Brand New Tube promotes tin-foil hat conspiracy theories and quackery-level pseudoscience. They completely lack credibility based on a lack of transparency and numerous failed fact checks.

[woodman]

https://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2021/11/de ... 79594.html

[woodman]

https://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conse ... FtPVHIN12A

https://www.vernoncoleman.com/main.htm? ... ZhNcUKhryk

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/finally- ... jRIsT.html

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/wtf-is-t ... 1L7hA.html

[Fun CH]

^Seems like you'd need to know how many unvaccinated and not already infected people that there are in each area to determine the potential for the severity of the an outbreak.

Also seems strange to compare a High density relatively small City of 900,000 to a large State with 3,000,000 people with both high and low density areas.

And those charts seem to be making assumptions about how well antibody tests correlate with immune response.

Anti bodies tests are currently not a good indicator of a persons immune responce. More data is needed.

Also scientists can't measure for T-cells which are an important component in immune response.


https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... d-immunity


"Testing your antibody levels to get a sense of your COVID-19 protection may be tempting, especially as you wait for a booster shot. But scientists say these widely available tests can't tell you the full story, at least not yet."

"Unlike other COVID-19 tests that are used to diagnose an active infection, these antibody tests are aimed at finding evidence of your body's immune response to a past infection with the virus, but they can also pick up certain antibodies that your body generated in response to the vaccine. And while the Food and Drug Administration does not currently recommend antibody tests to assess immunity, that isn't stopping some people."

[mister_coffee]

This is interesting (from a zoom call):

I should explain what is being shown: they are testing for two different antibodies, one for the spike protein, and one for a nucleo capsid that is present in covid but not in the vaccines. This provides a way to sort out who is infected and who has been vaccinated. The data is from blood donors so it does have some limitations.

What these graphs show is:

green: immunity from vaccination
yellow: immunity from vaccination and infection
red: immunity from infection only
gray: no immunity

The left-hand chart is from the Bay Area, where there is a high rate of vaccination and a low rate of infection. The right-hand chart is from eastern Mississippi, where there is a fairly low rate of vaccination and a high rate of infection.

So this shows you two things: that the vaccines do in fact work and that some areas (like the Bay Area) with a very high rate of vaccination are likely to do okay this winter, because there aren't a lot of people left to infect. Also, if you squint you can see that antibodies both from infection and vaccinations fade over time.

[Fun CH]

Not much of a ‘vaxxine’ if it needs a booster every 6 mos.!

I can understand why you don't want to receive the vaccine Ken, however I don't understand why you post these types of inaccurate statements about the Covid 19 vaccine

my understanding is that enough people have to become vaccinated or achieve natural immunity through infection for viral transmission rates to go down, which increases the likelihood that boosters will no longer be necessary.

.! (I never worry about polio or TB) I’m thinking a 99.9xx survivability with superior natural immunity is the way to go if you’re younger and healthy. Just sayin’ "Unsavory acronym".

You don't have to worry about polio or TB because vaccinations are mandated for those pathogens and enough people have become vaccinated for those diseases to no longer appear be a problem.

I'm guessing that you are already vaccinated against many pathogens including polio and TB as a requirement to attend public grade school.

So yea, another reason not to worry about those diseases.


This article from Yale medicine can explain it better than I can.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/herd-immunity


Here's to hoping that everyone who contracts covid-19 has a good outcome.

[woodman]

This was in my news feed today.

https://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conse ... MkvtMBYrS4

[pasayten]

Gibraltor is not doing so well. It appears that exclusive use of one medical product has caused unnecessary deaths and injury.

https://popularrationalism.substack.com ... MkvtMBYrS4

Not the gloom and doom case at all according to Newsweek... Only "official" celebrations canceled... Gibraltar is actually doing OK...


The government of Gibraltar has cancelled official Christmas celebrations despite having high vaccine uptake and a low number of coronavirus cases.

The territory is currently rolling out its booster shot programme and has reiterated it advises against any large informal social gatherings during this time. The Gibraltar Government issued new advice ahead of the Christmas festive period.

The British-owned territory has called on residents to limit their indoor mixing and take into consideration guests' vaccination status before hosting events.

Government officials have said citizens should "exercise their own judgment" on holding Christmas events, however it has "strongly advised against" this.

According to the Reuters coronavirus tracker, Gibraltar has administered at least 94,469 doses of the COVID vaccines so far. Assuming every person needs 2 doses, that's enough to have vaccinated about 140.2 percent of the British territory's population.


Our World in Data has indicated that Gibraltar is the most vaccinated part of the world with the percentage of the population being fully vaccinated greater than 99 percent.

Gibraltar has seen a slight increase in cases, and the 7-day average of reported infections was 66 on November 18. This is equivalent to 52 percent of its peak in January, according to Reuters.

[woodman]

Gibraltor is not doing so well. It appears that exclusive use of one medical product has caused unnecessary deaths and injury.

https://popularrationalism.substack.com ... MkvtMBYrS4

[mister_coffee]

Tetanus? That’s the best you got? Yeah, all those tetanus mandates and firings are pretty draconian! What a joke.

If tetanus was killing hundreds of thousands of people every year, then yes, I think there would be vaccine mandates for tetanus. But because we all get those vaccines and don't freak out and think they change our DNA or whatever we don't have those problems.

We only need vaccine mandates because so many people are victims of disinformation.

[Rideback]

If the Pfizer or Merck pills are widely approved that may soon become a popular alternative to boosters. When I check the Okanogan #'s it's been the case that most of the new cases are among the younger (under 59) set with the largest % in the youngest categories.

I'm seeing comments here that assume you either get it and die or you get it and survive; which leaves out the most critical track...how care is provided and paid for and of course if you survive will you have long term symptoms that in many cases are debilitating. There's been some interesting studies about athletes and how they are more vulnerable to the long haul syndrome as well.

There's also developing the story of how insurance companies are denying to pay the Covid bills of people who are not vaccinated and some hospitals are denying service to people who are not vaccinated. All of these developments are evolving because long-term information on effects is lacking, for obvious reasons.

[dorankj]

Ray, I choose to believe you are asking in all sincerity and in fact disagree in principle. I will not provide those details on this forum to be mocked, harassed and ridiculed by certain people here. I believe items provided here are up for that treatment but I will only discuss with people I have a level of trust with. Contact me directly.

[pasayten]

Ken, did you get re-assigned or fired from your job from the mandates yet? Are you involved in any of the lawsuits against the mandate? What avenues do you have to provide for your family now? I do believe the employment mandates without the opportunity of alternative testing for compliance is totally unfair.

[dorankj]

Tetanus? That’s the best you got? Yeah, all those tetanus mandates and firings are pretty draconian! What a joke.

[mister_coffee]

Not much of a ‘vaxxine’ if it needs a booster every 6 mos.! (I never worry about polio or TB) I’m thinking a 99.9xx survivability with superior natural immunity is the way to go if you’re younger and healthy. Just sayin’ "Unsavory acronym".

You must not have got a tetanus shot then (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetanus_vaccine):

Tetanus vaccine, also known as tetanus toxoid (TT), is a toxoid vaccine used to prevent tetanus.[2] During childhood, five doses are recommended, with a sixth given during adolescence.[2]

After three doses, almost everyone is initially immune,[2] but additional doses every ten years are recommended to maintain immunity.[3] A booster shot should be given within 48 hours of an injury to people whose immunization is out of date.[4] For people with high-risk injuries who are not fully immunized, tetanus antitoxin may also be recommended.[2]

Also, Hepatitis B vaccine requires 3 or 4 doses as well to get full immunity.

Also, 99.9x% survivability with 10-30% risk of long term health complications isn't exactly great either.

[dorankj]

Not much of a ‘vaxxine’ if it needs a booster every 6 mos.! (I never worry about polio or TB) I’m thinking a 99.9xx survivability with superior natural immunity is the way to go if you’re younger and healthy. Just sayin’ "Unsavory acronym".

[mister_coffee]

On the other hand, it looks like they are going to approve Pfizer boosters for everyone this week, not just high-risk people and those over 65. And a lot of states have already opened up booster shots to everyone who wants one. I guess the states are literally the laboratories of democracy.

At the very least that should keep the body count and hospitalizations down.

I know I'm getting a booster. I'm still going to wear a mask when indoors and in public for quite a while, regardless of what the official guidance is. And for the record, I hate wearing a mask.

My suspicion is that this is a long way from over, but I can't and won't predict what shape the future will have.