How to talk to someone about vaccine hesitancy

[pasayten]

[pasayten]

Moderna and J&J Covid-19 Boosters, Mixing and Matching Authorized by the FDA

The extra doses are expected to become available in coming days, once the CDC offers guidance on usage
Every Covid-19 vaccine authorized in the U.S. now has a booster.

By Peter Loftus and Felicia Schwartz | Photographs by Landon Speers for The Wall Street Journal
Updated Oct. 20, 2021 7:32 pm ET


U.S. health regulators significantly widened the nation’s Covid-19 booster campaign, clearing use of extra doses of Moderna Inc. MRNA and Johnson & Johnson JNJ vaccines and also saying people can get a shot that is different from what they had previously received.

The moves, announced by the Food and Drug Administration on Wednesday, will make boosters available to the majority of adults who have been fully vaccinated and have passed the recommended waiting period.

Now every Covid-19 vaccine authorized in the U.S. also has a booster. And people who took one company’s shot to get vaccinated could choose to get a booster dose made by a different company.

“Vaccines are one of our greatest tools in the fight against the pandemic, and ensuring the availability of boosters for those who need them is one of our highest priorities,” acting FDA Commissioner Janet Woodcock said during a conference call with reporters.

Who can get a booster—and when—depends on the original vaccine the person took.

Any adult who got a J&J vaccine may get a booster from Pfizer Inc. PFE 1.69% and partner BioNTech SE, Moderna or J&J at least two months after the single-dose shot.

People who were initially vaccinated with a Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine can get any booster at least six months after their second dose so long as they are seniors or at high risk because of underlying medical conditions or their workplace.

The FDA has already begun reviewing whether to expand the booster authorizations to more people, senior FDA officials said. The expansion would make the extra dose available to anyone 40 years and older who got a Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, according to a person familiar with the matter. A decision could come in weeks, followed by further authorizations for younger ages, the person said.



More than 69 million people in the U.S. have been vaccinated with two doses of Moderna’s vaccine, the CDC says.
The nation’s vaccine campaign will also expand in the coming weeks if the FDA greenlights Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines for children ages 5 to 11.

The permission to mix and match vaccines and boosters would help ensure doses are available to anyone who wants one, while also increasing options for fully vaccinated people, according to health authorities.

Some research indicates people who mix and match, especially if they got the J&J vaccine first, might get more protection. Health officials say the option might also ease the minds of people who worry they could develop side effects if they got another dose of the same vaccine.

“There are people who do not want to get the same vaccine they got before because they had some sort of reaction,” Dr. Woodcock said.

The shots could become available in the coming days, once the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention offers guidance to doctors, pharmacies and vaccination sites on how to use them and who should get them.

The FDA, which regulates a range of medical products, must authorize or approve a vaccine before it can be used outside clinical trials. Once a vaccine is authorized, the CDC sets policies about whether people should get it, which groups, and on which schedule.

The CDC is scheduled to issue its decision after a panel of experts reviews the matter and makes recommendations. The CDC advisory panel is scheduled to meet on Thursday.

The U.S. should have enough vaccines to meet booster demand, according to people familiar with the matter. People could get them at doctor’s offices, pharmacies and other vaccination sites.

The new authorizations come amid debate among health experts about whether many people really need to get a booster, or whether two shots provide sufficient protection, at least for the near future.


The Biden administration has sought boosters to bolster vaccinated people’s immune defenses, especially against the contagious Delta variant of the coronavirus.
More than 69 million people in the U.S. have been vaccinated with two doses of Moderna’s vaccine, according to the CDC.


Moderna’s original vaccine regimen, authorized for U.S. adults in December 2020, calls for two doses given 28 days apart. The Moderna booster dose will be half the dosage of each of the first two shots.

About 15 million people in the U.S. have received the J&J vaccine since it was authorized in late February as a single shot.

The J&J booster shot has the same dosage as the first dose.

The Biden administration has sought boosters to bolster vaccinated people’s immune defenses, especially against the contagious Delta variant of the coronavirus. After clearing the original vaccine regimens last winter, the FDA has been evaluating applications to add extra doses.

In September, the FDA authorized a booster dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for seniors and adults at high risk of Covid-19 who have already received the shots and are at least six months past their primary vaccination.

The FDA also has authorized boosters of the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines for certain people with weakened immune systems.

Israel, the U.K. and other countries have also been making boosters available.



The permission to mix and match vaccines and boosters would help ensure doses are available to anyone who wants one.
Vaccine experts advising the FDA voted last week to recommend the third dose of Moderna’s shot for older adults and others at risk of severe Covid-19. The panel also voted to recommend the second dose of J&J’s vaccine for all adults who received the first.

One issue observed in a small percentage of people, especially young adult men, who got Moderna’s two-dose regimen are inflammatory heart conditions called myocarditis and pericarditis. Some European countries have limited the use of Moderna’s vaccine in younger age groups because of the potential risk.



The FDA noted the risk of myocarditis in its authorization of the Moderna booster shot but didn’t specifically say whether the risk would be the same following a booster dose as after the primary vaccination.

The study evaluating a booster dose was too small to properly assess the myocarditis risk, Doran Fink, a deputy director in FDA’s vaccine division, said at an advisory committee hearing last week. Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine also has been associated with an increased risk of myocarditis.


So far, 11.3 million people in the U.S., or about 5.9% of the fully vaccinated population, have taken a booster, according to the CDC.

The mixing-and-matching decision is informed by a National Institutes of Health study showing that receiving a different vaccine than the original one received boosted antibody levels across all three vaccine types, but particularly among J&J recipients.

The NIH study showed that J&J vaccine recipients boosted with a Moderna dose saw a 76-fold increase in antibody levels, while a Pfizer booster increased antibody levels 35-fold and a J&J dose increased antibody levels fourfold.

[Fun CH]

we hardly have to wait for kens reply:

1. i have been here for tens of years. i know more than people that have been here for a handful of years.

2. the masks do not work 100%, so i will not bother with one.

3. the vaccines do not work 100%, so i will not get one.

4. i am strong. i can not easily get covid. but if i do, i will get better.

5. I have courage, and do not fear what you fear.

6. I am a professional, similar to the state troopers that were layed off. We do not have to comply with the rules that apply to ordinary citizens. We can make our own rules, and enforce those rules.

This mocking is definitely not how to talk to someone about vaccine hesitancy which is the theme of this thread.

[Fun CH]

it has to be in your own words, with no propaganda videos mixed in.

that's not the rule here. We've already seen that "using your own words" and not citing experts has lead to a lot of internet misinformation.

If you follow basic scientific method you will have citations from prior supporting peer reviewed reseach or quote facts to back your opinion, other wise its just an opinion based on bias and not to be trusted.


https://courses.lumenlearning.com/bound ... ic-method/

"scientific method: A method of discovering knowledge about the natural world based on making falsifiable predictions (hypotheses), testing them empirically, and developing peer-reviewed theories that best explain the known data."

[pasayten]

I replied to David and now it’s gone, this BB is censoring now too? Wow!

I have not deleted your post

[dorankj]

I replied to David and now it’s gone, this BB is censoring now too? Wow!

[mister_coffee]

Ken, I do respect that you are taking what you consider a stand on principle. While I vehemently disagree with your logic I do respect that you are standing up for what you believe is right. What I don't understand is that you seem to think that taking such a stand would be without consequences. If the powers that be are so unjust and corrupt why would you expect them to fight fairly?

Again, complaining about the injustice of it all does not impress me. You made a choice. That choice had consequences. Be a man about it.

The way I see it there are three options for you:

(1) Fight. Retain an attorney and find out what your options are. Keep in mind that attorneys that you didn't pay for aren't working for you and won't necessarily give you good and honest advice. Note that I am not a lawyer and do not know who your employer is and what your exact situation is so I can't tell you whether this makes sense or not.

(2) Move on. Cut your losses and leave your job and move on. One consolation is that in most professional fields, doing the same work as a consultant usually translates into 3x to 10x the pay. So if you are willing to exercise a little bit of enterprise and gumption (neither of which will harm anyone in moderation) you should be fine from an economic standpoint and possibly even far better off.

(3) Give up. Go get the vaccine and hope you get your job back.

[pasayten]

Why do you mock and ridicule and harass me

Do not believe that has been an issue on the covid subject...

I am anti-Inslee and his "mandates"... There are much better ways for these issues to be figured out thru better applications of actual science/data than his broad sweeping political brush.

[dorankj]

That would be reasonable and I would agree and even pay for them myself. Is that really so much to ask? Why do you mock and ridicule and harass me and bolster others who do so when you can suddenly jump to a pretty reasonable position when you actually hear the facts and truth of what me and my brothers and sisters are living? Why can you not even acknowledge that we are fighting for EVERYONE’S freedom to choose what medical procedures and medications they take?

I hope and pray that none of you on this board are forced by government with threat of removal of your entire livelihood for something you disagree or refuse to take even if I personally think it’s wise. I have always given my best medical advice to every patient I’ve seen and I always will (even if they can’t stand my political viewpoints) but I ALWAYS honor their personal medical decisions.

[pasayten]

I would have preferred other options like daily testing (on duty days) like some businesses are offering to their employees affected by the new requirements. Other than that, I guess it will be figured out in the courts. You still have the freedom of choice, but it does severely imapact you career and $ wise. Is compensation or retraining for another career inolved? More issues for the lawyers and courts to decide.

[dorankj]

I believe we are somewhere around 85-90% officially, however that may be wrong. Prior to our entire career being threatened we were about 50-60% so…..hard to say for sure. What does that have to do with following federal civil rights law? Why is it ok to offer exemptions and accommodations on paper only and not follow the law for real? How does that answer how you would respond if your entire income over a 20+ year professional career was suddenly being yanked because you wish to honor basic rights of body autonomy and individual choice?

[pasayten]

So what are the statistics of firemen that have gotten vaccinated versus those that have chosen not to in Washington?

"The city of Redmond didn’t provide data on vaccination rates, but an estimated 20 Redmond firefighters — about 1 in 8 full-time fire department employees — say they aren’t vaccinated and have no plans to do so."

[dorankj]

So David, your link to words trump my real life experience? NO ACCOMMODATIONS ARE ALLOWED! They didn’t demand extreme accommodations and I refused them, I didn’t request any accommodations different from what I have done this entire pandemic (and been assured, even cleared for duty are safe). If they flat refuse to follow title VII civil rights law and deny me a income what would you do?

[mister_coffee]

From one of many websites explaining exemptions from the state mandates (this one from https://www.washington.edu/coronavirus/ ... n-process/ )

I want to request a medical or religious exemption

The Governor’s proclamation allows for reasonable accommodation for medical or religious reasons and adds documentation requirements. If you are requesting one of those exemptions, you must complete a new exemption documentation process, even if you previously claimed an exemption in Workday. Note that the proclamation does not allow for a philosophical exemption and prohibits providing accommodations that are known to be based on false, misleading, or dishonest grounds or information; and/or are based on the personal preference of the individual.

Medical exemptions require a licensed healthcare provider attest that vaccination is contraindicated.

[dorankj]

Not that you here are reasonable and logical or honest advocates for truth, would it make any difference if you knew that there really are no religious or medical exemptions provided? I’ve received a exemption but exactly 0 accommodations will be allowed (unless you’re Deputy or Battalion chief, management ALWAYS takes care of their own!). So federal civil rights are being denied (no accommodation means no exemption) but it’s always stated exemptions are there, they’re not. When did it become fashionable to trust bigger and bigger government to always get everything right and impose one size fits all mandates and citizens attack other citizens in support?

[pasayten]

Seattle Met...

Health & Wellness
CORONAVIRUS CHRONICLES

Yes, We’re Still Talking about Covid Vaccine Myths
Answers to all the hot-button questions, from fertility to, uh, becoming magnetic.
By Angela Cabotaje
October 19, 2021


BLEACH INJECTIONS, horse dewormer, microchips—disinformation during the pandemic has been straight-up bonkers, you might even say laughable, if it weren’t for the thousands of people who’ve clung to those very myths and died.

While King County’s vaccination rates are high, other parts of the state and certain subsets of the population seem to accept the jab only when backed into a corner (see: Gov. Jay Inslee’s vaccine mandate, King County’s restaurant requirements, you get the idea).



That may be why, 20 months after this whole pandemic thing first sent us running for toilet paper and beans, the Washington State Department of Health felt compelled to host a webinar debunking common Covid-19 vaccine myths. Is it slightly depressing that our public health experts have to continue answering these types of questions? Yes. Is it also necessary considering the horrifying memes your high school friend is reposting on Facebook (not to mention the history of systemic racism in health care that breeds deep distrust of the medical community)? Also yes.

In attendance: Dr. Larry Corey, Fauci’s BFF and former president and director of Fred Hutch; Dr. Anisa Ibrahim, director of Harborview Medical Center’s pediatrics clinic; and Dr. Daniel Getz, chief medical officer at Providence Sacred Heart Medical Center in Spokane. Here’s what they covered.

Is the Covid vaccine unsafe or experimental?
In a word: no. In significantly more words from Corey: “RNA has been in development for over 30 years.... The patent that both Moderna and Pfizer have was a patent that the University of Penn has that was filed in 2005. I think we need to remember that these vaccines have been given to 400 or 500 million people now. It’s not experimental.”

Can the Covid vaccine change your DNA?
Here’s Corey again: “It really actually is impossible, from a molecular biology point of view.” You can pretty much apply this emphatic answer to questions like “Can the Covid vaccine make me magnetic?” or “Does the Covid vaccine contain microchips?” Just...no.

If you had Covid already, isn’t natural immunity just as good as a vaccine?
Nope. Corey notes that your body produces antibodies at much higher levels after a Covid vaccine than from natural infection. Something that’ll especially be handy when it comes to the Delta variant, which is eight times more infectious than the original version of this coronavirus.

Does the Covid vaccine affect your fertility?
There’s no evidence that the vaccine affects male or female fertility, Ibrahim notes. “There have been many women who have gotten the vaccine and have gone on to get pregnant and gone on to have healthy babies as well,” she says. In fact, it’s maybe even more important for people who are pregnant to get vaccinated as they are especially vulnerable to the disease. And if you’re breastfeeding, you’re actually passing protective antibodies onto your baby through breastmilk if you’re vaccinated. Add that to your tally of parenting superpowers.

Can you still get Covid after you’ve been vaccinated?
While the answer is yes, all the ado about breakthrough cases is for nothing when you think about the entire reason for getting vaccinated. “The point of this vaccine was to prevent severe side effects from Covid, meaning hospitalization or death,” Getz explains. So even if it feels like the vaccine has “failed,” it really hasn’t when you consider that unvaccinated folks have roughly 10 to 11 times higher death rates from Covid than those who’ve gotten the jab.

Why do we need boosters if the vaccines work?
Well, immunity (while still high) is waning. That’s in part because these vaccines were developed based on the OG version of this new coronavirus rather than Delta, but it’s also just how vaccines work. Think of the flu shot you’re supposed to get every year or the multiple measles or polio vaccines kids have when they’re young. The virus is evolving so the science (and the vaccines!) do too. In a sense, boosters help you get to optimum vaccination status.

But, like, only older people need to get vaccinated right?
Ibrahim offers up this sobering picture: “Covid-19 is one of the scariest infections we’ve seen in the medical community because there are five-year-olds dying from it, there are 20-year-olds dying from it, there are 60-year-olds dying from it.... There were healthy 20, 30-year-olds that were doing triathlons that are dying from Covid-19, so no one is untouched. No one is invincible.”

[PAL]

More county news.

10-12-2021 Tues PM Board of Health Summary: In public comment session, attention drawn to Coroner’s running out of space for bodies and lack of mask-wearing at county meetings despite Covid’s toll on county staff; Health Officer Wallace says Okanogan county slowly improving its Covid numbers though it still has among highest rates in the country, admits to fallout from vaccine requirement but says shots are up.

[pasayten]

Maybe of interest to the Italian Helicopter...

Live Updates: Italy’s Covid Vaccine Mandate Comes Into Force, a First for a Western Democracy

All workers across public and private sectors are now required to be vaccinated or take frequent coronavirus tests. While many accepted the move as a necessity, it was greeted by protests in some parts of the country.

[Fun CH]

It’s ignorant and hyperbolic and very misleading, so pretty normal for keyboard warriors. I choose not to go too far down the rabbit hole with certain people, many years responding to crazy people claiming some medical malady has befallen them but is not backed by any medical science. My real frustration with that particular individual is when he stated I should be run out of my 24 year professional career because I don’t subscribe to his particular medical nonsense and then mocked me and my brother and sister professionals who have dedicated our lives to saving others !

Yes, people need to understand that getting Covid 19 information, or any medical information for that matter, off of an internet chat forum or non expert on YouTube is asking for trouble.

Its mind boggling. But words getting out.

Don't hear to many people insulting firefighters or first responders on the internet especially one's who just saved their property this summer and are always prepared to help save lives.

Inslee should have offered a weekly testing option not mandatory termination.

But consider this. I don't really desire to be pulled over for a traffic infraction by an officer who is untested or, in lue of that, unvacinnated. At least a first responder will likely be wearing a mask.

It will be interesting to see what the court says.

[anonloser]

How is that relevant? I have 30 years of experience talking sh** on the internet and that makes me exactly as much of an expert in virology or epidemiology as you.

[dorankj]

Yeah, 30 yrs saving lives what do I know?

[anonloser]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GukIoZ8d3Ew

This doesn't make sense. If people want to drown, then go for it. Go gargle bleach and drink a lake. I don't really give a sh** if people want to die stupid.

The analogy would be if they jumped into a crowded pool without a life vest, then when they start drowning, dragged other nearby swimmers down with them.

I also don't take any advice from people who follow up incendiary commentary with a sales ad for some dumb sh** from their personal line of crap. eg Alex Jones and this doofus.

"ARE YOU TIRED OF COMMIE LEFTISTS MAKING YOU GAY WITH MASKS? BUY MY SPECIAL PANTY MASK! IT SAYS I'M MANLY AND F*** YOU AT THE SAME TIME AND IS VERY HETEROSEXUAL. OWN LIBTARDS. BIDEN BAD. TRUMP GOOD. USA SAD."

Useful idiots are a normal part of many political debates but when performing real damage to so many they are very aggravating!

lol couldn't have said it better myself.

[dorankj]

It’s ignorant and hyperbolic and very misleading, so pretty normal for keyboard warriors. I choose not to go too far down the rabbit hole with certain people, many years responding to crazy people claiming some medical malady has befallen them but is not backed by any medical science. My real frustration with that particular individual is when he stated I should be run out of my 24 year professional career because I don’t subscribe to his particular medical nonsense and then mocked me and my brother and sister professionals who have dedicated our lives to saving others ! If he knew anything about me and my fellow front line workers (and nurses and WSP etc) this is really a tragic outcome from a ignorant power hungry governor who has no elections left so is seeing how far people can be pushed just to boost his bonofiedies for a administration job at a fed level. Useful idiots are a normal part of many political debates but when performing real damage to so many they are very aggravating!

[Fun CH]

Better require 2 life jackets! Maybe 3. What does Fauxci say?

I wear 3, but I'm old and fat so a lot of flotation is required.

But seriously, what do you think, as someone on the front lines saving lives, when some internet "expert" alleges that firefighters are responsible for "superspreading" Covid 19 around the Methow Valley because store clerks are getting sick and infection rates are up now over a month after the firefighters have left the valley?

I don't know about you but that type of innuendo sticks in my craw when the reality is those fire fighters saved this Valley from untold pain and suffering as well as major loss of property, again. And they risked their lives to do it.

[dorankj]

Better require 2 life jackets! Maybe 3. What does Fauxci say?