Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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Fun CH
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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anonloser wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:51 pm
Fun CH wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:50 am
How did those facts not trigger a re-examination of that person's beliefs and the source of those beliefs?
I respect you for still having this much faith in people.
its more of a feeling of hope that I'm clinging too. :)

I also have some understanding why that person could not see those simple facts that blew a huge hole in her reasoning and why that person's beliefs (and all of ours) won't change anytime soon.

Quotes from. moral psychologist J. Haidt. (FWIW, he tries to understand why we are divided in order to bring us together. It's only through cooperation that we will survive).

"Morality binds and blinds. It binds us into teams … but thereby makes us go blind to objective reality."

"If you think that moral reasoning is something we do to figure out the truth, you’ll be constantly frustrated by how foolish, biased, and illogical people become when they disagree with you. But if you think about moral reasoning as a skill we humans evolved to further our social agendas—to justify our own actions and to defend the teams we belong to—then things will make a lot more sense."


"But the most important lesson I have learned in my twenty years or research on morality is that nearly all people are morally motivated. Selfishness is a powerful force, particularly in the decisions of individuals, but whenever groups of people come together to make a sustained effort to change the world, you can bet that they are pursuing a vision of virtue, justice, or sacredness."
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding--Nick Lowe
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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pasayten wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:59 am They also zapped my thread about if anybody wanted the covid thread re-constructed here... lol
Maybe they should be renamed the EggsForSale BB. I left Methownet as my ISP a few years ago due to poor speeds and poor service. Looks like poor BB goes along with it.
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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Fun CH wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:50 am
How did those facts not trigger a re-examination of that person's beliefs and the source of those beliefs?
I respect you for still having this much faith in people.
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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They also zapped my thread about if anybody wanted the covid thread re-constructed here... lol
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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mister_coffee wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:20 am Looks like the folks on the other board woke up and didn't like what they saw. So a couple more threads are gone...

Nobody at methownet is going to ask me for advice, but at this point if they did I'd tell them to get rid of the board. Maybe work with some folks on a suitable replacement but it is just more trouble than it is worth to them and they obviously aren't set up to manage it.
that's how they operate at MNet. Leave a controversial thread up for awhile, get the misinformation out there, get members arguing then pull the thread.

At least you were civil and trying to help with facts.

Then there was the person who said that the Covid vaccine was causing birth defects. You pointed out to her the timeline for pregnant women being approved for the Coronavirus vaccine was only 4 months ago and the nine-month human gestation period didn't line up so evidence of birth defects is not possible yet.

How did those facts not trigger a re-examination of that person's beliefs and the source of those beliefs?
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding--Nick Lowe
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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Looks like the folks on the other board woke up and didn't like what they saw. So a couple more threads are gone...

Nobody at methownet is going to ask me for advice, but at this point if they did I'd tell them to get rid of the board. Maybe work with some folks on a suitable replacement but it is just more trouble than it is worth to them and they obviously aren't set up to manage it.
:arrow: David Bonn :idea:
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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mister_coffee wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:56 pm
As I said on the other board, misinformation is a big problem and it is quite literally costing people their lives and their health. It is an ugly and thankless task to try to stamp it out, kind of like pulling knapweed. But it needs to be done.
The knapweed is a good source of nector for all the little pollinators out there including honey bees. Large Beekeeper operations used to bring hives here to fest on knapweed nector at a time when there's not much else blooming.

And to your other point, Misinformation works to create wealth.

Its the American way. What more did you expect?
What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding--Nick Lowe
Can't talk to a man who don't want to understand--Carol King
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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During the pandemic my network of friends have held periodic "drunken zoom" calls where we catch up.

Last December, during one of those calls, one friend noted "If this disease had a five percent fatality rate people would be eating each other by now."

I can't say he is wrong.
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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Woah woah. Get those aggressive facts outta here. Let's high five ourselves out of this pandemic with love and understanding.

What I learned through this is that there's going to be a lot fewer Americans the next time something more lethal like SARS or MERS comes around.
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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The way I look at it, I learned something new today that I wouldn't have known before -- that not all vaccines provide what is called sterilizing immunity where you cannot be infected by the pathogen.

Examples of vaccines that do not do this:
  • Flu vaccines
  • Rotavirus
  • Hepatitis B
  • Whooping Cough
  • Inactivated Polio Vaccine
  • (apparently) COVID mRNA vaccines
Chances are you got an inactivated polio vaccine when you got vaccinated. So at least I can say I am learning something. I doubt any of the anti-vaxxers are learning anything, or even trying to.

As I said on the other board, misinformation is a big problem and it is quite literally costing people their lives and their health. It is an ugly and thankless task to try to stamp it out, kind of like pulling knapweed. But it needs to be done.
:arrow: David Bonn :idea:
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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The post on the other BB most assuredly will be taken down. I kind of pushed it, but I don't think it will be because of me. I don't think I have ever come across a more stubborn group of people that refuse to believe the facts. And more misinformation given, with you countering in such a rational way. Although Susan allowed herself to get offended.
I think it will get worse, but I think these people really don't care. It's the way it's supposed to happen, I guess. Oh and now the news is reporting about a mysterious illness, called the Havana something. I have to look it up as the pathetic news did not say what the symptoms are. I mean, sometimes all news channels are pathetic in giving out info.
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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I honestly think the former guy just tapped into a large mass of credulous people who are easily manipulated and set things in motion. Kind of like triggering an avalanche.
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Re: Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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Thanks David. Kind of a sad video. I still attribute Orange for planting the seed of concern that people will lose their freedom. They apply it to everything in their lives. Covid takes away their freedom as this video shows.
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Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom | NYT Opinion

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:arrow: David Bonn :idea:
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