Shamans and the Chieftan

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mister_coffee
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Re: Shamans and the Chieftan

Post by mister_coffee »

Rideback wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:48 pm Google Permission Structure.
That is an interesting use of the term.

One could argue that all of the unearned media coverage Trump automatically gets gives people, in particular people who would otherwise dismiss him as an unpleasant kook, permission to take him seriously.

The class of people whom, in the end, know better than to enable somebody like Trump honestly scare me and disappoint me much more than his clueless True Believers -- the Red Hats are ultimately his victims. And if (or hopefully when) the whole grift collapses they will be the first who are thrown under the bus.

There were a bunch of sci-fi short stories in the 80s set in a dystopian American future. One of the key features of that future was a very corrupt and dangerously clueless President. In the storyline the "President" was a California Used-car dealer who dressed up as Uncle Sam in his late-night television ads. Uncle Sam had a lot in common with 45. The only thing the author missed was that I only think such a thing would be possible for a New Yorker, since a lot of our media's center of gravity is in New York. A Donald Trump's brand of self-promotion done in California or Florida or Texas wouldn't ever get much visibility on the national scene, but in New York even a small-time player can build a national platform. Also the fact that while in theory there are separations between "News", "Public Relations", and "Advertising" those separations are at best porous.
:arrow: David Bonn :idea:
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Re: Shamans and the Chieftan

Post by Rideback »

Jim. Google Permission Structure.
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Re: Shamans and the Chieftan

Post by just-jim »

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Nothing can excuse guilty Donnie’s actions that day….and there is no point in blaming Pelosi. That would be like blaming robbery on the store not having better guards!
Oh wait….I forgot…… you are in a cult….and see everything exactly that way.
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Re: Shamans and the Chieftan

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I know you were told there was a tape and that it was all Pelosi's fault at the time but now that you've learned that the Right Wing media lied to you it's ok to admit you were scammed. Whether it was Fox or Steve Bannon or NewsMax or OAN, they have admitted to the lies after their emails and messages reached the courts.
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Re: Shamans and the Chieftan

Post by dorankj »

Nancy Piglosi? Talk about the arsonist who burnt it down! She’s on tape admitting she was responsible (she didn’t want police or national guard around because the Dems hated police then)
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Re: Shamans and the Chieftan

Post by just-jim »

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Represenative Adam Schiff - noting that the Maga/republicans had invited GUILTY donnie to visit the Capitol - called it; “Bring your Felon to work day”.

Nancy Pelosi added - that it was a case of a ‘criminal returning to the scene of the crime’.
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Re: Shamans and the Chieftan

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Don’t forget’progressiveism’!
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Re: Shamans and the Chieftan

Post by mister_coffee »

"flag and cross"

Well, if you think about it, fascism always seems to combine patriotic (really jingoistic) symbols and religious symbols.

Think about Russia today as probably the best example. But you can also make arguments for Iran, Saudi Arabia, and even China (if you consider communism a weird kind of religion). Burma back when it was a dictatorship also had a lot of that going on.
:arrow: David Bonn :idea:
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Re: Shamans and the Chieftan

Post by just-jim »

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Some think this is mis-attributed to Lewis. In any case…it seems scarily apropos…..
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Re: Shamans and the Chieftan

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Even AI couldn't write him out of the mess his head is in.
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Re: Shamans and the Chieftan

Post by just-jim »

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Some people think this fascist azzhat - this blabbering mor*n, with his idiotic gibberish - should be president.
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Last edited by just-jim on Wed Jun 12, 2024 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shamans and the Chieftan

Post by Rideback »

Snyder cuts to the heart of the matter, again. One his context is understood the current situation is all the more untenable.

I still find it remarkable that of all the human beings in this Country that it was Trump who the Federalists, Christian Nationalists, Conservatives all decided to hang their hats on and risk everything for. Now that he has gone over the edge and is talking about electric boats and sharks it's all the more apparent that the rule of law which was designed to protect the country and which this gang has so deftly sought to dismantle can't bail them out. They've made their choices, dragged the Country along and now find their fondest wishes fulfilled by a mad man.

I suppose it's a scenario where an ideology is formed and developed but along the way no one thought of an escape plan in case their front man was unmasked as a con man.
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Shamans and the Chieftan

Post by just-jim »

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Shamans and the Chieftan. Timothy Snyders substack. Worth reading!

Modern revenge culture, explained by Mrs. and Mr. Alito

We have the rule of law so as not to have a culture of revenge.

For much of human history, it was an eye for an eye, as we read in the Bible. In a revenge culture, a chieftain decides who is to blame, and the shamans explain how the blood and chaos is just and necessary.

In the Greek tragedies of Aeschylus and Euripides, the grand problem is escaping from reciprocal violence within and among families. In early discussions of European law, in Icelandic sagas or in the Primary Chronicle of Kyivan Rus, an incipient government regulates revenge, so that it does not continue indefintely.

The rule of law is a solution: if we are all equal subjects of law, then we plead our case before a court, rather than seek after blood. A constitution, like ours, gives flesh to this conception. It might not be perfect: when it is not, we interpret it in the spirit of equality and non-violence rather than grievance and violence. No one can be above the law, and no one can be the judge in their own case. A constitutional order will depend upon judges who understands these fundamental ideas.

The other day, Mrs. Alito gave us a good exhibition of revenge culture: “I’m German. I’m German. My heritage is German. You come after me, I’m going to give it back to you. And there will be a way. It doesn’t have to be now. But there will be a way – they will know." Those remarks about the delights of revenge related to her choice to fly an insurrectionist flag after Donald Trump's attempt to overthrow American constitutional order in January 2021.

The political theory of Trump's coup attempt is that all that matters is the chieftain. He does not have to win an election, because the chieftain has the right to rule simply because he is the chieftain. Requiring Trump to win an election is thus a provocation. The claim that he should leave office when he loses an election justifies revenge. And of course retribution is Trump's platform.

The legal theory of Trump's coup attempt, made explicit in argument before the Supreme Court, is that the chieftain is immune to law. There is magic around the chieftain's person, such that he need respond only to himself. The words "presidential immunity" are an incantation directed to directed to people in black robes, summoning them to act as the chieftain's shamans and confirm his magical status.

Some of the people in black robes, Supreme Court justices, like being shamans. Our shamans are allowed to take bribes from those who support the chieftain, and also allowed to claim that as magicians, people unlike others, they are unaffected by them. If there is any doubt, our shamans tell us, they can be trusted to be judges in their own case.

Shamans thus installed will protect their chieftain, and surround him with their magical aura. Unlike other courts, the Supreme Court can make things up as it goes along, and there has been a good deal of that lately, especially on the part of Mr. Alito. Its members can claim fidelity to the words of the Constitution, then cast all that aside when the chieftain is threatened.

To contemplate "presidential immunity," as the shamans are now doing, is to cast aside the rule of law and summon up the ghost of revenge culture. It is constitutionally ridiculous to say that the person whose responsibility is to execute the laws is above them.

But the problem is deeper than that. If any individual is untouched by law, that individual can be expected to shift the entire society back towards revenge. Trump openly affirms this. His entire platform is retribution — retribution against others for the crime that he himself committed. Once we replace law with revenge, there will be no way to hold him back. And, as we know from experience, revenge culture quickly spreads. As we know from history, it takes on a certain political form.

Mrs. Alito affirmed revenge culture as a German way of doing things. The context was America's Reichstag fire, Trump’s attempted coup of January 2021. She flew the insurrectionist flag, defending the chieftain’s Big Lie, and his magical claim to keep power regardless of reality and constitutional order.

The fascist attitude towards law was a modernization of the notion that the chieftain, the shamans, and the enemy who is to be attacked for our own crimes. For the Nazis, this was the natural order to be restored. Because a constitutional order already existed, part of the restoration of revenge culture had to be carried out by the judges themselves.

Nazi legal theorists argued that politics was a matter of defining the enemy and choosing a side. The rule of law was to yield to a special sort unrule, in which the chieftain defined politics by choosing an enemy to be blamed for his own crimes. Law would be whatever shielded the chieftain as he divided society, in what the Nazi legal theorists would then describe as a natural struggle for power.

Following the Nazi logic, sitting judges would reverse their previous role in a constitutional order, covering up the transformation with legalistic language. They would accept their role by warping law so that it served the chieftain, defining an us-and-them, rather than protecting everyone.

As a judge put it: "one side or the other is going to win."

That was Mr. Alito.


https://snyder.substack.com/p/a-short-c ... ule-of-law?
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