1984

[mister_coffee]

Oh yeah, and "ISIS" stands for "Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant". So they call themselves a state, which I put in quotes anyhow.

[mister_coffee]

...
Hmm you say they were traitors how so? Slavery at the time was legal, not saying it was right, but it was legal and the Southern States were saying it was the right of the States where slavery was allowed not some do gooder hundreds of miles away to make that decision. I would hardly call fighting for what you believe in as being traitorous as long as what you believe in is legal.
Now if you want to hang traitors let's start with those in Washington DC serving in Congress. Additionally ISIS is NOT a nation it is an ideology against non muslims and the western way of life

I thought good conservatives actually read the constitution. Guess not:

... only in levying War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort....

So how was taking Fort Sumpter and Lee's Gettysburg campaign not "Levying War". And the CSA had to support those operations so that would be "Aid and Comfort". So how exactly were they not traitors? I also note that Jefferson Davis was indicted for treason but in the 1868 amnesty they let him go. Which in my opinion was a grievous mistake.

A good conservative would also know this history.

And under the law and constitution and not just your feelings (and f**k your feelings, to use a pithy phrase) how exactly do the actions of any US congresscreeps actually meet the definition of treason? Oh, except for the filth that conspired on January 6th to overthrow the constitution in violation of their oath, but that probably is more properly covered by sedition and not treason. Although anyone who helped the rioters before or after might also be arguably providing "Aid and Comfort". So you might want to think about who needs to get hung.

And you call yourself a "conservative." You should be ashamed of yourself. A good conservative would know their history and know the constitution and not just their anger.

[Jingles]

Sounds like you object to the flags you mentioned being banned yet you did not seem to mind when the Battle Flag of the Confederacy was banned and that was part of History and will forever be a part of History

The practice of buying and selling people, breeding them like farm animals, and working them to death was also part of our history. Own the honor, own the shame.

And ISIS and the like are "nations" at war with us, the Confederates were filthy traitors we should have hung.

Hmm you say they were traitors how so? Slavery at the time was legal, not saying it was right, but it was legal and the Southern States were saying it was the right of the States where slavery was allowed not some do gooder hundreds of miles away to make that decision. I would hardly call fighting for what you believe in as being traitorous as long as what you believe in is legal.
Now if you want to hang traitors let's start with those in Washington DC serving in Congress. Additionally ISIS is NOT a nation it is an ideology against non muslims and the western way of life

[dorankj]

Rideback, you lie about me (your normal state) and then hold me responsible for your made up caricature. I do advocate for not killing babies in healthy mothers, I’ve said very little about the southern border but stopping illegal activity is wise and I’ve never said anyone is above the law (but neither is anyone beneath it!)

And Jim, the biggest jackwagon here! Forcing only certain ‘diversity’ by force of government or your employment is the opposite of MLK’s dream, and right inline with 1984s thought police and total government control. The same with “Equity” which is opposite of equality (again forcing outcomes) and meritocracy.

I know you guys are in a real fit right know and lashing out wildly, maybe take a break and enjoy a sunshiny walk!

[just-jim]

Termination of DEI too, it’s divisive and ultimately self destructive. Using words that sound nice but have nefarious intent and outcome is right in line with 1984s warnings.

You have it exactly backwards….as usual.
You seem to think it’s “divisive” and “destructive” to talk about concepts, thoughts and words that are uncomfortable; therefore discussing/thinking about them should be banned. That is EXACTLY like 1984’s ‘thought police’.
Oh wait….you missed understanding that….

The civil war is part of our history. Celebrating with statues of insurrectionist generals and their flags is not. That stars and bars flag, like the flag of the current insurrectionist, Guilty donnie, isn’t fit to wipe one’s azz with. It does, however, seem to be a useful display of racism for some. That’s ALL it was ever about.
.

[mister_coffee]

Sounds like you object to the flags you mentioned being banned yet you did not seem to mind when the Battle Flag of the Confederacy was banned and that was part of History and will forever be a part of History

The practice of buying and selling people, breeding them like farm animals, and working them to death was also part of our history. Own the honor, own the shame.

And ISIS and the like are "nations" at war with us, the Confederates were filthy traitors we should have hung.

[Rideback]

DEI? As in diversity, equity and inclusion? Ken, you're the one who has rallied around women losing their rights in the Dobbs decision. You've pushed commentary about the southern border where migrants of a variety of backgrounds have stood to get across that border. You've stood with Trump when he claimed he was above the law. Please enlighten just which DEI you are referring to.

[dorankj]

Termination of DEI too, it’s divisive and ultimately self destructive. Using words that sound nice but have nefarious intent and outcome is right in line with 1984s warnings.

[Jingles]

Bravo for the Tennessee ban on any flag other than the US or TN flags in schools in TN.
Or maybe you feel is okay to display any flag, what's next you'd approve of maybe the ISIS flag, or Antifa flag.
Sounds like you object to the flags you mentioned being banned yet you did not seem to mind when the Battle Flag of the Confederacy was banned and that was part of History and will forever be a part of History

[dorankj]

You guys harass, harangue, name call me and castigate saying I believe things I don’t and when I say you’re wrong and basically knock it off you continue and libel me further! Maybe wrap your pea-brains around the idea that I have read the damn book (and Animal Farm and Fahrenheit 451 and Hunger Games etc.) and I see what’s happening NOW as far more fulfilling of those dystopian warning narratives. Quit engaging in all the things you accuse me (somehow your enemy to be destroyed by any means) of and actually consider there are people who view things differently. Try THAT diversity!

[pasayten]

Ken does have his opinions and adversarial demeanor... But that is his right... Just glad his views/manner are on the minority side of things.

[PAL]

See Ken. you revert to name callling. If you didn't do that maybe there would be a conversation. But you do what Trump does.
And you are hostile or that is your tone. Has anyone ever asked you about that or mentioned that to you?

[pasayten]

jeesh... added another word to word censoring...

[just-jim]

I have, you———.

.
Your thoughts and replies here seem to indicate differently. The Marvel comic book edition doesn’t count, unfortunately. You actually have to read and understand the big-person words.

Notice how ‘No source Ken’ always equates and mirrors his words with yours? Much like he equates Guilty donnies lies and crimes with fantasy and made up versions of Biden’s deeds and words? He merely parrots everything back at you….
It’s the equivalent of a schoolyard taunt - ‘I know I am but what are you’. This is in order to give credence to his imaginary world; if he can make such imaginary things somehow ‘even’, ‘equal’, or even regular, then of course, they are not so fantastical….or so terrible. They become normalized. It’s: ‘Yeah, pee-pants donnie is a bad actor, but so is Biden…so hey-ho, there ya go’.

It’s classic doublespeak gobledegook!
.

[mister_coffee]

My apologies. I know reading is easy if you skip the comprehension part.

[dorankj]

I have, you dumba**.

[PAL]

I'm saying that Trump would consider me "the enemy" or whatever. If my views oppose his, I am wrong.
Someone I don't agree with wants to control aspects of my personal life. What I might want to read, how I govern my body. At this point, if I wanted to I have the freedom to read Mien Kampf, if I choose.
And so we have opposing views. What is the problem?
You could choose to read "1984". It is quite engaging.

[mister_coffee]

Read the damned book, Ken.

[dorankj]

‘Control speech, called names, are the “enemy”’?! Hey pot, meet kettle. “Once you get revisionists successfully deciding what history or sociology is ‘correct’”, ain’t that the truth! Mirror.

[PAL]

So it is mainly those on the right that are promoting these bans to control free speech. Ken begs to differ in the other post.
If someone disagrees with Trumps views, they are called names or are the "enemy".

[just-jim]

.
And Tennessee is about to become the first State to ban Pride flags in schools.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ag-schools

The bill bans any flag that is not a U.S. or State of Tenn. flag and allows students/parents to sue school districts based on this.

…and….

“The University of Florida is terminating all its diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) positions to comply with a state law passed in January that prohibits state or federal funds from being used to fund the programs.
The university, with more than 30,000 undergraduates, said in a memo issued on Friday that it was closing its office of the chief diversity officer, eliminating DEI positions and administrative appointments, and halting DEI-focused contracts with outside vendors.“

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -positions

As MC notes….once you get revisionists successfully deciding what history or sociology is ‘correct’….then people begin to forgot to keep watching what’s happening….
.

[mister_coffee]

Washington is one of the few states right now with very little book banning activity. Remember, this is a very liberal state and bluntly, even our right-wingers are pretty liberal by the standards of say Texas or Florida. And speaking of Texas and Florida, those two states are leading the book banning and book burning charge. Or rather than "charge", perhaps a "tilt at windmills".

It also says a lot that any book that tells uncomfortable historical truths about race or slavery are also banned.

Ironically, Fahrenheit 451 is also often banned and all too often burnt. And not because it is a pretty lame and overrated book. Another lame and overrated book that they'd probably ban is Sinclair Lewis' It Can't Happen Here, which tells the story of a fascist takeover in the United States in the 1930s.

My own personal view is that the banning of books targeted at young adults that have LBTQ characters is more about getting a precedent for banning other books that they find politically objectionable. Once you get a community or governing body okay with banning any books they aren't going to pay as much attention to what other books you intend to ban.

Top Banned Books, 2022:

https://www.literatibookstore.com/banned-books-2022

Also bonus material:

https://pen.org/report/book-bans-pressure-to-censor/

[PAL]

And yet,"Mein Kampf", is not banned. Hmmm.
But our library has some of those books still, including "Mein Kampf".

[mister_coffee]

For some reference, since some of our community members seem compelled to refer to 1984. If you actually want to read or re-read it (and I strongly recommend that you do) here is a link:

https://www.planetebook.com/free-ebooks/1984.pdf

Also, it is ironic (but certainly not one bit funny) that 1984 is one of the most banned books in the country. And right-wing kooks are doing the banning and burning.

Amongst other worthwhile books that these evil wretches are banning include:

The Complete Maus: A Survivor's Tale

To Kill a Mockingbird

The Handmaid's Tale

Animal Farm

I would hope that most of you have already read those books. I urge you to read or re-read them while you still can. While there are a lot of other books on the list of banned books, the above gives me a crystal clear idea of what the intentions of the book banners truly are.

If you throw around depictions of your opposition as straight out of 1984 at the same time you advocate that nobody can read the book, what are you really arguing? I submit that what you want is to have 1984 be a symbol of everything you hate and everything you think is bad. Or perhaps doubleplusungood, and want to throw all of that down the memory hole.

It is also absurdly ironic that Animal Farm is being banned all over the place. It is the most vehemently anti-communist book imaginable. Which I thought was one thing the book burners mostly were...