Helicopter Hovering discussion-the "other" BB-Hot Topic

[pasayten]

But are you saying it's ok to inflict pain and suffering on higher mammals?

Where do we draw the line? Mammals? "Higher"? Why not birds, fish, and amphibians? Those are always the interesting questions.

[Fun CH]

"Causes Pain and Suffering"... We better stop using mouse traps then.... quit fishing... and slow down on the highways to help prevent road kills... Maybe quit using insecticides... Everybody become vegans... quit increasing our population and growth as it is displacing all critters...
and etc...

I agree with much of that. However as Pearl pointed out the deer have no problem living with humans in town where they have predator protection.

But are you saying it's ok to inflict pain and suffering on higher mammals?

I heard a gut shot deer cry out all night long. Ever watch a mother deer look at it's fawn that was just killed by a vehicle? Why would anyone believe that these are not emotional creatures?

Unfortunately, there are a lot of hunters out there that don't know what they are doing. Not to hard to follow a blood trail and put the deer out of its misery.

WDFW does not have Definitive research that the closures will have an effect on long-term deer populations.


I just hope the people who agree that human powered recreation hurts the deer population and who support the closures stop any outdoor public land recreation here in the winter. There are deer everywhere out there and if you believe wdfw's hypothesis, then it's hypocritical to impact deer in other places.

[pasayten]

"Causes Pain and Suffering"... We better stop using mouse traps then.... quit fishing... and slow down on the highways to help prevent road kills... Maybe quit using insecticides... Everybody become vegans... quit increasing our population and growth as it is displacing all critters...
and etc...

[Fun CH]

One thing that was pointed out is that WDFW closures will increase user group conflict as skiers, snowshoers and Wildlife viewers are blamed for decreasing mule deer populations here. I already see that happening.

Here is a different view of hunting as conservation.

https://www.idausa.org/campaign/wild-an ... to%20death.

"Hunting is Not Conservation

Wildlife management, population control and wildlife conservation are euphemisms for killing – hunting, trapping and fishing for fun. A percentage of the wild animal population is specifically mandated to be killed. Hunters want us to believe that killing animals equals population control equals conservation, when in fact hunting causes overpopulation of deer, the hunters’ preferred victim species, destroys animal families, and leads to ecological disruption as well as skewed population dynamics.

Because state wildlife agencies are partly funded by hunters and other wildlife killers, programs are in place to manipulate habitat and artificially bolster “game” populations while ignoring “non-game” species. These programs lead to overpopulation and unbalanced ecosystems by favoring buck only hunts, pen-raising pheasants and other birds as living targets for hunters, transporting wild turkeys, raccoons and other species across state lines to boost populations for hunters and trappers to kill, and by exterminating predators such as wolves and mountain lions, in order to increase prey animals like elk and deer to then justify hunting as needed for “population control.”

"Hunting Causes Pain and Suffering

A mere four percent of the human U.S. population hunts, compared to 22 percent - over 70 million people - who enjoy watching wildlife alive. Wild animal watchers spend over $20 billion more than hunters on their activities that respect, rather than harm animals.

Despite increasing public opposition, hunting is permitted on 60 percent of U.S. public lands, including in over 50% of wildlife refuges, many national forests and state parks; on federal land alone (more than half a billion acres), more than 200 million animals are killed every year (McCarthy).

Quick kills are rare, and many animals suffer prolonged, painful deaths when hunters severely injure but fail to kill them. Bow hunting exacerbates the problem, evidenced by dozens of scientific studies that have shown that bow hunting yields more than a 50 percent wounding and crippling rate. Some hunting groups promote shooting animals in the face or in the gut, which is a horrifically painful way to die."

[PAL]

Helicopter Hovering Over Gunn Ranch / Rizer?

Search this topic…
11 posts 1
mazamakyle
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:51 am
Helicopter Hovering Over Gunn Ranch / Rizer?
Post by mazamakyle » Fri Dec 08, 2023 11:16 am

Anyone know what that might be? They are going up and down the hills super close to the ground. It doesn't have any official markings.
Top
Payne
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:25 pm
Re: Helicopter Hovering Over Gunn Ranch / Rizer?
Post by Payne » Fri Dec 08, 2023 2:09 pm

They are probably doing deer counts. Not entirely certain, but it's likely.
The helicopters used for deer counts are chartered, so no official markings.
If someone knows different it would be good to know.
Top
rastass509
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 4:01 pm
Re: Helicopter Hovering Over Gunn Ranch / Rizer?
Post by rastass509 » Fri Dec 08, 2023 3:41 pm

Also hovering around hippie hill
Top
karlukkid
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:23 am
Re: Helicopter Hovering Over Gunn Ranch / Rizer?
Post by karlukkid » Sat Dec 09, 2023 7:28 am

I am sure that a helicopter flying at low altitudes counting deer has no effect on the deer. Bruce Herron Wolf Creek
Bruce Herron Wolf Creek
Top
carolwisman
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:24 pm
Re: Helicopter Hovering Over Gunn Ranch / Rizer?
Post by carolwisman » Sat Dec 09, 2023 7:46 am

Good one Bruce! As opposed to me hiking Lewis Butte with just my feet.
Carol Wisman
Top
navisradwick1
Posts: 589
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:09 am
Re: Helicopter Hovering Over Gunn Ranch / Rizer?
Post by navisradwick1 » Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:52 am

Yes, and 30 years ago when we moved here, a woman told us ski poles would scare the deer.
Top
GoodNeighborKen
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:11 pm
Re: Helicopter Hovering Over Gunn Ranch / Rizer?
Post by GoodNeighborKen » Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:27 pm

Friday while out on a hike in one of the areas scheduled for closure I bumped 9 deer while treading lightly on my feet. These deer stotted (bounded) away from my perceived threat, uphill. I later came across them again and they were visibly nervous and stressed. Had this been a typical midwinter snow depth these deer would have burned some serious calories. I’m a huge user of the WDFW managed public lands and will miss winter recreation on these lands but I support the closure and believe it will benefit the herds. Plenty of other public lands and Methow Trails to burn up my calories.
Top
RandySea
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:49 am
Re: Helicopter Hovering Over Gunn Ranch / Rizer?
Post by RandySea » Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:02 pm

carolwisman wrote:
> Good one Bruce! As opposed to me hiking Lewis Butte with just my feet.
> Carol Wisman
People on foot seem to frighten deer and other wild animals more than do motor vehicles. We look like a potential predator (which we are!), cars etc. do not.

I'm with Ken on this. I will really miss winter hiking on the Golden Doe but understand and support the reasons for the closures.

Randy Brook
Top
karlukkid
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:23 am
Re: Helicopter Hovering Over Gunn Ranch / Rizer?
Post by karlukkid » Sat Dec 09, 2023 4:07 pm

I too will respect the closure, though I wonder if they closed the hunting season it would help. I know of one game processor who processed over 42 deer this year. Bruce Herron Wolf Creek
Bruce Herron Wolf Creek
Top
DamenMartin
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 8:45 pm
Re: Helicopter Hovering Over Gunn Ranch / Rizer?
Post by DamenMartin » Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:00 pm

Should we shut down the highways also Bruce. 42 deer a season vs all the deer hit and killed and left to rot. If you’re against hunting just say it, because the hunting community does a lot more for conservation of deer (and other species ) then most any other group of people.

Hmm, is that an oxymoron, hunting versus conservation of deer? I bet I catch some heat for that.
Those wandering in towns don't seem to be afraid of people. Why is that? Are they used to people? I'm assuming they have become habituated to people and some of the non native plants.
One deer killed is one less deer.
Pearl Cherrington