Timothy Snyder on Terror/counter-terror

[mister_coffee]

I would think many terrorists and soldiers use an array of drugs …

Yes, all true. But in Islam intoxicants are forbidden. Tough for me to imagine a Islamic fundamentalist that overlooked that one.

[PAL]

I would think many terrorists and soldiers use an array of drugs.
Interesting map.

[mister_coffee]

This is weird and something I never heard of:

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/10/21 ... -captagon/

reported on October 19 that Hamas terrorists were fueled by the amphetamine-like drug captagon as they rampaged through southern Israel on October 7. The pills were allegedly discovered inside the pockets of deceased terrorists, who used the illicit narcotic to remain calm and alert while attacking Israeli civilians. An Israeli social media account shared footage on X suggesting that the terrorists also traveled with cocaine “to fuel their satanic urge.” Under the influence, the terrorists could sustain their attack over an extended period of time and commit atrocities with a perverse sense of euphoria.

Nearly all of the captagon distributed in the Middle East is manufactured in Syria. There is a multibillion dollar illicit trade in this drug throughout the region. It seems to me that the factories making this stuff would be an excellent target for the Israelis.

[PAL]

Excellant Rideback. This may be the point I was trying to get across with that awful Al Jazeera article. But I don't know, this Balloon juice site just might be more than Ken wants to know.

[Rideback]

Searching for larger context and cooler heads I ran across this thread which I found worthwhile.

https://balloon-juice.com/2023/10/21/da ... statement/

[mister_coffee]

\Ok Mr Coffee just out of curiosity how much time did you spend in a military uniform,\

None at all.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't know that doing exactly what your enemy wants you to do, and obviously anticipates you doing, is a very bad idea.

There is some time to think here. Hostages are being released and we should get as much of something for nothing (or very little) as we can before we send good kids out to die.

[PAL]

So when Al Jazeera answers the questions in the article, they are making them up? It is history. Those things happened.
Jingles, you mention Vietnam, a true cluster. If we hadn't gotten out of there, would we still be there to this day?

[Jingles]

Easy to talk tough and talk big when you won’t be doing any of the fighting and dying.

Ok Mr Coffee just out of curiosity how much time did you spend in a military uniform, 22years for me and yes I did the fighting and lost to many friends to begin counting and I agree with it is time to kick A$$ and don't worry about taking names. Collateral damage is a fact of war, you should be fighting to win not reach a draw and that is something the US has done since they tucked their tails and ran out of Korea, Vietnam and everywhere they have been since.. wars are bloody and it should be expected not everyone that gets killed is in the military. This is called expected and accepted collateral damage losses
NEVER AGAIN

[dorankj]

No, I opened and read through it (maybe you’re the one who assumes other’s intentions) I just found it devoid of balance and perspective. Very expected of Al Jazeera.

[PAL]

I knew that would be your response. You are the one that needs more perspective. The article lists the events that have happened in the past and explains many of the decisions and mandates. But you probably didn't even open it. You freaked when you saw, oooh, the bogeyman Al Jazeera.
Shows your prejudice. Yeah, get all your facts from Newsmax with ole screamer Kimberly Guilfoyle. She put on a quite a show at a Trump rally.

[dorankj]

Sure, Al Jazeera will give us a honest history! I think we need a bit more perspective.

[PAL]

History lesson. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/ ... mple-guide

[mister_coffee]

From https://wesodonnell.medium.com/heres-wh ... 21403313d3 :

Kenneth “Frank” McKenzie Jr., a retired Marine Corps general who served as the chief of U.S. Central Command recently said, “I think they’re going to go back in, heavy, and it’s going to be a bloodbath for everybody.”

Specifically, General McKenzie worries that the IDF will get bogged down in the “messy unpredictability of urban warfare.”

[dorankj]

Back then the Israelis were the ‘Palestinians’. Yes picking one spot in time to start determining history is not wise, maybe we should check with the most accurate history book we have about that area, the Bible?!

[just-jim]

Yes, I am talking about the State of Israel being created out of what was the UK Palestinian protectorate and prior to that Ottoman Empire. What was Israel’s to ‘give up’ was Palestinian to begin with.

Inconvenient thing, history. You cant begin and stop it, arbitrarily, in order to make ready made chunks of time to prove your points.

[dorankj]

Yes, they gave up control of the Gaza Strip in an effort towards 2 state solution. If you’re referring to the creation of the Israeli state that’s a different discussion and shouldn’t be used here to confuse people or shoehorn the ‘colonialism’ argument.

[just-jim]

Ken, you have your Middle East Nation-building history exactly 100% backwards. Israel didnt ‘give’ anything to anybody.

[dorankj]

PAL, you’re “white people” (funny how it’s now perfectly acceptable to always demonize that group!) in your analogy are the Arabs. Israel gave that land to the ‘Palestinians’ in an effort of peaceful co-existence and in response they elected Hamas and use all the billions of dollars of aid they receive to build terror tunnels, buy rockets and kill every Jew they can. This college campus ‘colonialism’ is the root of all problems on this planet and magically only white peoples have ever done that is so pedestrian and without critical thinking.

[dorankj]

How do you get hostages (who are being raped, tortured and abused!) back without going in? Hamas have PROVEN they are bloodfrienzied animals who will do the most vile and disgusting things. Israel takes almost ridiculous effort to warn innocents about impending attack and minimize any unnecessary casualties. Hamas forces civilian casualties (and then create propaganda they know will be instantly picked up by dishonest media!) by placing forces and weapons in hospitals, schools and residences. We MUST accurately call out the true evil and go after the head of the snake, IRAN.

[PAL]

Say you have some Native Americans living on the land and we, white people, want that land and we take that land and the people living there are displaced. Or they live there and their comings and goings are controlled, their water is poisoned, food rationed. The people that took the land don't want to live in harmony with others, they want them gone.
We have the Brits to thank for the Palestinian/Israeli conflict.

[mister_coffee]

I'm 100 percent for sending every member of Hamas to Hell. Preferably in very, very tiny pieces.

But wouldn't it be nice to get at least some of the many hostages back alive? And would it be worth it to wipe out Hamas if it meant you didn't get back most of those hostages, or any of them?

And if you eradicate Hamas, what guarantee can you give that it won't be replaced by an organization even more bloodthirsty?

Israel and its allies have some time to think. They ought to use it.

[dorankj]

His final point IS the point, appeasement and containment has been the norm (at world demands) and the Israelis have received 10s of thousands of rockets fired into their nation and repeated attacks. You must separate RESPONSE to violence from those who initiate violence. If your neighbor here in the Methow constantly screamed that they were going to kill you and your family and one day they break the fence down, shoot your dog, light your cat on fire, cut off your child’s head and rape and take your wife hostage you wouldn’t accept us here telling you to just think about your actions in the past and don’t get really mad or go ‘overboard’ with your response! You would DEMAND we recognize real evil and violence done TO you and that we must understand that things you’ve done were in response and therefore NOT the same. You would also not accept half measures and backing off that leave your neighbor able to do anything like that again, you would demand they be locked up, forced to leave or so decimated that they couldn’t keep performing the harassment they’ve been doing for years and if their wife and children and animals weren’t in the best situation after this you probably wouldn’t lose a lot of sleep over it and us telling you that YOU must temper your position and change your feelings because we (from the safety of distance) think you’re too overboard. The CENTURIES long history of Jew hatred and persecution including the holocaust is also undergirding this issue, “never forget” is meant to be permanent not transitory.

[Rideback]

Here's truth for you Ken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RMBCscHfGM

[dorankj]

You guys always site “complex” and get vague when you know you’re wrong! You know I’m right in this, and you really should get on the right side of this issue. You leftists always put ‘winning’ over truth.

[Rideback]

Members of Hamas have taken out protestors among the Palestinians, people who represent an opposition party, lined them up and knee capped them in front of civilians. They have terrorized the Palestinians. Understand that it's not as simple as saying the Palestinians largely support Hamas.

This conflict measures one of the most complex geopolitical problems of our times. There's nothing easy about it and we're about to watch deadly fighting in the streets of Gaza where the blood of Palestinians, Israelis, Americans and Hamas will flow.

Biden makes the case for aid to both Israel and Ukraine and links Putin
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-m ... kb9pAcmqSw